Southend-on-Sea, England: Kung Fu master Tony Anthony and Avanti Ministries

[filehelp]

Information on Ian Davidson.

He is now 51 years old and his full name is Ian Michael Davidson. previously a British Neo-Nazi... and apparently good friend of Tony.


Again he was a South Shields carpenter before joining the PLO and getting arrested in Cyprus. any information on the guy is vital.

If we can contact him I'm pretty sure a Neo-Nazi will happily provide us evidence against "Christian" TAs claim.

TA should really check his facts before stating he hangs out with Neo-Nazi's and visits Cyrpotic(?) gay bars

[stubbe78]

My only source(for the bookediting etc.) is my churchleader and I doubt very much that he wants to co-operate as he doesn't suspect Tony to be a liar.
So I rest my case and let you go on, cause right now I can only find the holes, but not fill them in.

However, I sent an E-mail to my cousin, who is a zoologist. He is no expert on tigers, but all in all, it is very unlikely that he both met the tiger and schratched it behind the ears, but under all the right circumstances it could be possible.

He is not absolutely sure, but he says that he heard that also other species can carry the recessive gene. The Siberian tiger for instance, I have heard the same on various sites.
Now, we can't use information on the white tiger, because eventhough we find answers for the holes in my cousins knowledge, Tony could still have met one(remember it is a mutation, not a sub-species, so they can occur from time to time) he could have schratched it behind the ear, eventhough it is VERY unlikely.

So regardless of all the information that we can find on tigers, it won't lead us anywhere in proving that he is a fraud. We are just wasting time on that one.

The leads to follow must be for instance Ian Davidson and a confrontation with Tony, as you are also doing.
I highly doubt that he will show you, but he mentions in the book that he has cigaret-burnmarks on his arm
I have no more informations to help you, but I will be following the debate of course

You are doing a great research guys

[stephenprunetti]

Tiger, tiger, burning bright.

Hi all,

This is the last time i'm going to post on here about the tiger thing, because frankly, i'm bored numb with it. If anyone wants to believe that Tony Anthony stroked a wild WHITE tiger, somewhere in the South of China, then so be it. Some people believe that the earth is flat. The fact that anyone would give him the benefit of the doubt about this, especially when you take into account all his other ridiculous claims, i find mind-boggling.

Stubbe78, no kidding about your cousin being 'no expert.' My mate Dave down the pub, who digs ditches for a living, and has a metal plate in his head, could tell you that this incident is so absolutely unlikely, that it is firmly in the realms of pure fantasy.

I phoned one of England's most famous zoos today. The girl who answered was incredibly helpful. She went and asked the big-cat expert who works there, the likelihood of such an event, and then she phoned me back. As the message was relayed to me by her, i promised i wouldn't quote the guy, which is why i've not named the zoo. But what do you think the big-cat expert said? Well, phone your favourite zoo and you'll find out.

Top marks, again, Filehelp, your research is what i was hoping for two years ago. I hope all your information will get the ball rolling this time, and Tony Anthony will be unmasked. I think it's a great story for a journalist to cover. 'Lying kung fu evangelist charlatan exposed!'

[CrackFox]

Hi all,

This is the last time i'm going to post on here about the tiger thing, because frankly, i'm bored numb with it. If anyone wants to believe that Tony Anthony stroked a wild WHITE tiger, somewhere in the South of China, then so be it. Some people believe that the earth is flat. The fact that anyone would give him the benefit of the doubt about this, especially when you take into account all his other ridiculous claims, i find mind-boggling.

The problem with the tiger thing is that, even though it's so unlikely as to be practically impossible, there is this infinitesimally small chance that it's not. Any right thinking person will see it's bullshit, but for the people who want to believe this story, they're going to hang on to this tiny chance for dear life.

You need to use something like the dates not adding up first to get them to see that Tony is bullshitting. Then, and only then, can you move on to show them how ridiculous the tiger story is.

[stubbe78]

Easy Stephen, I wasn't trying to give him the benefit of a doubt, it was just to underline the fact that we can't use the tiger thing, because others would give him the benefit of a doubt, so we are on the same page here, I was actually trying to make a closure on that part.
My cousin doesn't believe it, nor do I.
I was just trying to say that when people really want to believe in it, it is waste of time to carry on with a story like the tiger story.
I also did it, because it was part of my early research and I just wanted to let you know, what the answer was. Won't happen again

[stubbe78]

You need to use something like the dates not adding up first to get them to see that Tony is bullshitting. Then, and only then, can you move on to show them how ridiculous the tiger story is.

That's not even enough. If Tony says that he changed the exact dates for security reasons, people would still believe him

[CrackFox]

That's not even enough. If Tony says that he changed the exact dates for security reasons, people would still believe him

Then you need to get the dates from the prison service.

[stubbe78]

You're right on that one, but one of the others is working on that already

[littleoldme]

Easy Stephen, I wasn't trying to give him the benefit of a doubt, it was just to underline the fact that we can't use the tiger thing, because others would give him the benefit of a doubt, so we are on the same page here, I was actually trying to make a closure on that part.
My cousin doesn't believe it, nor do I.
I was just trying to say that when people really want to believe in it, it is waste of time to carry on with a story like the tiger story.
I also did it, because it was part of my early research and I just wanted to let you know, what the answer was. Won't happen again

I wasn't going to mention this but....

My grandfather was an animal trainer who worked on various films and radio programmes and he also worked as a zoo keeper at Whipsnade and London Zoos. In his youth he worked with Billy Smart's circus as an animal handler and even did a spot of lion taming. At Whipsnade and London Zoos he worked with the large felines and also wolves. The only animal he refused to work with was a polar bear (too unpredictable IHO)

Now back when my granddad worked with lions and tigers things were very different than these days. They didn't have the same health and safety legislation to start wit so his job was actually very dangerous.

I used to listen to my granddad talk for hours about his work with animals and I grew up wanting to be a lion tamer.

I doubt that anybody would take my granddad's thoughts seriously these days as his views on animal husbandry were very old fashioned by today's standards. They didn't have an AR movement back then and people thought about animals very differently than they do today. I no longer want to be a lion tamer and believe that lions should run around in Africa being free and occasionally being shot as hunting trophies.*

Anyway, because of my granddad's work I have read every news article I could regarding lions, tigers and other large felines since I was a kid.

I've watched countless TV programmes and have also done my bit for tiger conservation in a rather unusual way (can't really go into it here but if you doubt me I can prove it to a mod).

I know people who hunt these kinds of animals (well lions) and also some of the people who work to conserve the endangered species and subspecies.

I can tell you with 100% accuracy that there is absolutely no chance whatsoever that Tony Anthony or any other person could encounter a wild tiger in its natural habitat and scratch its ear and live to tell the tale. None.

I could even tell you about the countless optimistic zoo keepers who have been killed by "tame" tigers over the years.

I suppose that the story of Daniel in the Lion's Den will inspire some Christians to believe that something as impossible as this could really be true.

I just think it's very sad that so many good people are being duped.

*Except for Barabay lions of course. Obviously

[stubbe78]

I believe in the bible. I find no reason to believe Tony Anthony, as, for instance, it was his kung fu that was said to rescue him. I would be very careful to believe Tony based on the Daniel story alone, but it could be one of the arguments that would be used. Therefore, for me it is not as black and white, as it may be to you, as my christian faith is my life
However, I still don't believe him and as long as he can't come up with better explanations, that won't change.

[littleoldme]

I believe in the bible. I find no reason to believe Tony Anthony, as, for instance, it was his kung fu that was said to rescue him. I would be very careful to believe Tony based on the Daniel story alone, but it could be one of the arguments that would be used. Therefore, for me it is not as black and white, as it may be to you, as my christian faith is my life
However, I still don't believe him and as long as he can't come up with better explanations, that won't change.

While I don't share your Christian faith I think it does you great credit that you can hold your beliefs dear and yet also maintain a logical and skeptical perpsective in relation to Tony Anthony's claims.

I wish that more of your brethren were able to be as discerning and cautious.

[filehelp]

Tony has replied to an email from me and said he would answer some questions.

I sent a few to him about 10 hours ago and am still awaiting a reply. Will post when he replys.

[Ronin.74]

Quick Question to any TCM-Artists:

If there was a Kung Fu World Championship in 1987-89 would "the tournament always be point sparing rather then full contact"?

And has anyone heard of "Li Chang Po?" from Xi'an, or his Master. "The renowned grand master Gwok Siu Fong"?

I haven't read the book so I have a couple of questions. Does he say where the tournaments took place? Yes it is quite possible that there were full contact Kung Fu tournaments going on at that time that referred to themselves as the "Kung Fu World Championship". There were full contact Lei Tai events held in China in 1986 and I believe there were Kuoshu events going on in Taiwan that were full contact.

As far as the names of his teachers I would need them in Chinese characters to do any effective research. Gwok Siu Fong is definitely not Mandarin I am assuming it is Cantonese. Does he say where this master lived?

[PDA]

30/07/1969 .
Ive tried to find name change records at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk but i dont have the time to play around with the search functions.
The other directors of the company are : sarah Anthoney(wife) DAVID JOHN DUELL, Heather Crossley, David Martin Eady. Mark Griggs, William Richard Newton. Philip Anthony Smith.
I dont think that there is a financial con going on. It looks to me like our friend Tony Anthony was possibly rejected as child in some way and wants to be worshipped and loved. This maybe why he has re-written that part of his life. It seams that there maybe a bit of truth here and there in the prison stories but the chinese grandfather master in china story stinks of more bullshit than speech by Gordon Brown.
He is based within a mile or so of where i train so at some point ill try and get an interview.

P.S
I am both a christian and martial arts practioner (allthough a novice in the latter)

[stephenprunetti]

Hi Ronin.74. Hi everyone else!

A little while back on this thread there was a discussion between a few people about whether Tony had a Cantonese accent or not.

I think this missed the point entirely, the first question that should have been asked is, 'Does Tony Anthony even speak Cantonese?' He claims to have been raised in Guangdong province, which i believe is a Cantonese speaking area. Tony himself, in his book says, 'My grandfather took on the majority of my upbringing.' So one must assume he is fluent in Cantonese. He very well may have been raised in Guangdong province and speak Cantonese. But i am suspicious about even this.

All it would take to find out, is for someone who speaks Cantonese to talk to him. Ronin.74, you seem knowledgable in this area. Do you speak Cantonese? If so, why don't you phone him up and ask him what his favourite Chinese food is, in Cantonese?