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Southend-on-Sea, England: Kung Fu master Tony Anthony and Avanti Ministries

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    Originally posted by stubbe78 View Post
    Btw, in the next edition of the book, there will be an explanation of the slightly turned names of individuals and organizations, so he will just refer to that, if we confront him with irregularities.
    He also has some kind of explanation for the IKFF issue. Something about security reasons and he says that it was a mistake not to put the explanation in the book the first time and that he will do so in the next edition.
    Now, that is lame, everyone knows that you write it in the book, if you are not using the real names. Someone must have known that.
    Furthermore why then does he mention some real names of hardcore criminals?
    There is something wrong here
    Can you source where he said about revisions and other facts?



    I would also like to say that the tone of the investigation and the fact there has been no religious bias from either point of view has been great.

    Comment


      any lurkers out there close to Chesham?
      I suspect we could benefit a lot from a in person meeting.

      Mods could you help out on trying to find a Bully for the meeting?

      Comment


        Originally posted by filehelp View Post
        can anyone find this out when Caponey was first released? even IF Caponey was in jail at the same time as Anthony, which I highley doubt. (would have to be a pretty long juvenile sentence but NOT served in the juvenile wing) he still called Caponey a Murderer/Rapist which didnt happen till 1994.

        Originally posted by filehelp View Post
        Tony states that he was released from prison in 1992 yet, "Al Caponey" wasn't sentenced till 1994. How is this possible?
        Al Caponey was already in prison at the same time as Tony his sentence in 1994 was for another crime.
        Malcolm seems confident that he knows about Al Caponey and the time he spent in prison

        Maybe you should email him again and ask him for more specific information about why he was in prison and when he was released?

        Comment


          When I emailed Malcolm he said that he would check these facts over with Anthony, so I imagine that is Antony's answers. When i challenged the information the second time Malcolm recommended I talk directly to Tony about it.

          I'm quite certain about the facts I have of Caponey in prison. At the moment some people from Cyprus I have made contact with are clarifying Caponeys sentences dates.

          Why i am focusing on the dates is because the meeting of Caponey was a key feature to the book and one, when proven as a lie, will be evidence enough for most people concerning Tony.

          Tony's exact release date was stated in the book as 11 November 1992

          Comment


            Originally posted by stephenprunetti View Post
            The following is not the full conversation that i had with Angela Little today, but the important bits. Excuse my inarticulate way of speaking, but i'm writing the exact wording used.



            SP: When you did the book, was there any verification process? Because he makes some pretty big claims, Tony Anthony.

            AL: Not by myself, no. Cos just being the writer, i wouldn't see that as my role. When an author comes to me i write what they ask me to write, and i do happen to trust Tony. I believe what he says is true.

            SP: Everything in the book, you believe to be true?

            AL: Yes i do. I have no reason to not believe it's true.

            SP: I believe 100% that the man is a liar and a fraud. What bothers me is, he's travelling the world getting in front of large groups of people, and passing his story off, which i believe is at least 90% fabricated, as true, and using it as a Christian recruiting aid.

            AL: He is. Do you know what? He's using it as a tool to then present the gospel message. Now i know, cos i know him very well, that if he could do this without telling his story, then he would, because he hates his story. He doesn't like telling his story.

            SP: Well, he seems to be going round the world telling it often enough! And there's enough videos of him on youtube telling his story.

            AL: Yeah. He uses that as a tool to then present the gospel message. Which at the end of the day is what it's all about.

            SP: I think it's pretty 'off' that he's spreading the gospel, the word of Jesus, by lying! His story is untrue.

            AL: Right. Ok. Well i don't think there's anything i can say or do to help you. I trust him. I am at the end of the day just a writer, and i've written what i believe is a truthful story.

            SP: And there was no verification process at all? You haven't checked any of his claims?

            AL: Not particularly, no.
            I don't think that went particularly well really

            It comes across as though you were so angry that you were unable to ask specific questions about times, dates, how much creative license she used in telling Tony's story, all kinds of things, that would have been interesting to hear Angela's to reply to.

            I think that you immediately got her guard up so it quickly became an angry row based on contradiction "I think he lied" vs "well I think he didn't lie"

            What is useful is that it is clear that Angela did not conduct any research or checks to validate Tony's story. I think we all suspected that was the case but it's useful to have confirmation of it.

            Comment


              I am not at all sure what is going on here

              I think there may be con involved but I'm not entirely sure who is pulling the strings if there is.

              It is possible that Tony has a learning disability and has been manipulated by others with pasts even more depraved that that which Tony claims for himself. He may be the front man and the fall guy. He may be a master liar and manipulator, he may be vulnerable / not very clever and is being manipulated himself.

              It may be that, like many mediums and psychics, he is raking in the money whilst actually believing in his own fantasies as if they were truth.

              He may have narcissistic personality disorder and his compulsive lying may be symptomatic of that.

              Maybe his story is entirely true, a white tiger with cubs existed in Southern China when Tony was there and allowed him to pet her like she was a domestic cat. Maybe the moon is made of cheese.

              Right now we have insufficient data, so we can produce speculative hypotheses but we just don't yet know what is going on.

              I think the one thing we do know is that Tony's story has more holes than a Swiss cheese and that neither his publisher or his ghost writer made any effort to check the authenticity of his story.

              Comment


                Haha Cheers, I think everyone posting has done a great job of investigating and more importantly sourcing facts!

                Very true about fact checking, judging from the two conversations we can be certain that there was NO fact checking at all. The only verification at all was a reference check.

                It would be interesting to hear from someone with legal experience regarding Fraud concerning lying in a biography, personal speeches etc.
                Possibly even in regards to selling a book labelled incorrectly labelled a biography to the English equivalent of the Better Business Bureau etc.

                Comment


                  Hi Littleoldme.

                  Sorry if you think that it comes across that i was angry whilst talking to Angela Little. I can assure you that i wasn't. I had to state quite early on that i believe that Tony is a liar as i believe not to state my position to her initially would have been disingenuous. And Filehelp, having met Tony, i think that you are being very optimistic in believing that meeting him would clarify any of this.

                  Comment


                    Obviously a meeting wouldn't clarify anything, especially a meeting with a professional con artist.

                    But what it will achieve, if we ask a well structured question... (a question which haven't been shown on this forum) the following minutes of awkward silence, and frigidity answers will clarify most peoples opinion on his character, and would also be a very interesting inclusion into his Youtube page.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by stubbe78 View Post
                      Btw, in the next edition of the book, there will be an explanation of the slightly turned names of individuals and organizations, so he will just refer to that, if we confront him with irregularities.
                      He also has some kind of explanation for the IKFF issue. Something about security reasons and he says that it was a mistake not to put the explanation in the book the first time and that he will do so in the next edition.
                      Now, that is lame, everyone knows that you write it in the book, if you are not using the real names. Someone must have known that.
                      Furthermore why then does he mention some real names of hardcore criminals?
                      There is something wrong here
                      Interesting post

                      I agree that his responses sound lame

                      I can see the pattern here of how he is going to respond to any uncomfortable questions relating to hard factual information that could validate his claims.

                      "I'm sorry I can't answer that for security reasons"

                      Another thought that comes to me is that even his supporters understand that his story sounds incredible.

                      Dailymotion - Taming the tiger Tony Anthony part 1 - une vidéo Vie [email protected]@[email protected]@http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/[email protected]@[email protected]@x6gkal

                      if you watch the first few seconds of this video is says that "people often say that truth is stranger than fiction and every now and then a true story comes to light that almost defies belief. Such is the life story of Tony Anthony.... "

                      Why did nobody think to check the authenticity of a story that is so obviously fantastical?

                      Comment


                        Filehelp, i agree that if you videoed such a meeting, it would show people his true mettle. When i met him, he was quite obviously very uncomfortable with my questions. But as i was questioning him, people were coming up to him asking him to sign his book for them! It was quite comical.
                        I find it interesting that his email link at avantiministries.com has been down for a few days now. Maybe it's just a coincidence.

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                          Comment


                            Originally posted by stephenprunetti View Post
                            Hi Littleoldme.

                            Sorry if you think that it comes across that i was angry whilst talking to Angela Little. I can assure you that i wasn't. I had to state quite early on that i believe that Tony is a liar as i believe not to state my position to her initially would have been disingenuous. And Filehelp, having met Tony, i think that you are being very optimistic in believing that meeting him would clarify any of this.

                            Maybe you weren't angry but I think that by stating that you thought he was lying and a fraud at the start of the conversation, you would have sounded very attacking to her, especially if she received your call out of the blue. Then the conversation got shut down quick time as there was nothing to discuss. You think he's lying, she believes him, and that's that.

                            I would have been interested to hear her answers to specific questions and, even though I think he is lying, I would have maybe put things differently, but maybe I'm a less straightforward person than you?

                            Perhaps I should have said that you wear your heart on your sleeve or something?

                            I wasn't having a go, just a bit disappointed not to learn about the extent to which she used artistic license in telling Tony's story, as I think this will be an issue later and Tony may use it as a defense against the various holes in his story

                            Comment


                              Quick Question to any TCM-Artists:

                              If there was a Kung Fu World Championship in 1987-89 would "the tournament always be point sparing rather then full contact"?

                              And has anyone heard of "Li Chang Po?" from Xi'an, or his Master. "The renowned grand master Gwok Siu Fong"?

                              Comment


                                Hey Littleoldme,
                                No worries. You're right, i am sometimes a little too straight forward for my own good. That's just my way. But, and maybe it's wrong to start out on this premise, i already knew that neither Angela or Tony had verified Tony's claims in any way. I know this because i've read the book!! But now we have it from them. Which is very helpful in exposing Tony Anthony for the fraud that he is.

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