"Master Jules" CQB Bullshido in New York?

[It is Fake]

No one is dumb enough to go to your place of work to harass you. That way you can set them up and call the cops or instigate a fight.

It is a lose lose situation for anyone testing you. Sadly, this has nothing to do with proving your credentials.

[hungryjoe]

Regardless of all these questions, the invitation to the bar where I work is OPEN to any and all takers....PLEASE feel free to "test me", if that will make you happy. As I said, it will be MY pleasure.
Goonight for now

BOUNCERS - You usually run in packs - like dogs or gang bangers. Some working extra hours for the money. Most on an ego trip with no other job skills. Don't tell me different.

Kindly provide FACT on your lineage, which begins with your direct (Kirk) association.

AND I may ask, why was this Kirk spending so much time at your good graces (living under your roof and teaching you (1 on 1) to the extent that you progressed so quickly?

I (we) are starting to smell BS despite your best attempts.

[sambosteve]

I do NOT have a 3rd Dan in Katsugo Ryu AikiJuJitsu.

Your bio here says you do: http://www.lyon-ma.com/p7.htm

From a karate forum you posted on:

Master Julian Hoenig

5th Dan, Renshi, Okinawan GoJu Ryu
5th Dan, Co-Founder CQB Tactics (Close Quarter Battle)
3rd Dan Katsugo Ryu AikiJuJitsu
2nd Dan USA/Urban GoJu Ryu
1st Dan Close Combat JuJitsu
Police Tactics/Hand to Hand Combat Master Instructor
Member--United Martial Artists Association Black Belt Hall of Fame 1998
Member--Action Martial Arts Magazine Black Belt Hall of Fame 2004

[sambosteve]

Ive also mentioned MANY times that the LE agency that I worked for was the SPCC (society for prevention of cruelty to children), of which, Master Kirk was the Chief of Police....

I am not in LE, so can anyone explain if this is a actual Law enforcement agency, or a private organization as the word "Society" would seem to indicate? A noble group no doubt either way.

On you my space you said you were a volunteer detective with the SPCC.

One of my Masters has been in law enforcement for over 30 years, and is currently The Chief of Police for the SPCC (Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Children), and he inducted me in as a volunteer detective

Here you say Agent and later special agent.

My master had been in law enforcement since the late 60's, and he was the Chief of police of the SPCC, and HE was the one who swore me in as an agent, to begin with, and as the years went by, I received a promotion to special agent...

That seems a big difference in terms to me...agent, special agent and volunteer dectective.

Thjis seems like similar word play to the sercet service gig...tactical driver...limo driver...

[sambosteve]

Originally Posted by knifehand1
Im sure that none of my answers mean anything to you all anyway...

I for one, do appreciate you coming here and answering questions.

You never did answer my question about your 5th Dan Aikido Rank. Can you please revisit this? Was this rank from Kirk as well?

Also you never answered my question regarding contact information for the United Martial Artists Hall of Fame which placed you in the HOF in 1998. I can't find anything about this group on line. There are several small clubs and orgs by that name, none of which offer a HOF as far as I can figure.

Additionally, just out of my curiousity....who are you (as a group), and what makes you think that you have the right, let alone the credentials to "fact check" ANYONES background ???

This is a public forum (ike all forums) which exists primarily to offer opportunities to fact check information which has been offered to the public - as is your information.

[knifehand1]

I am going to sleep. I will do the best I can to continue to answer your lengthly list of questions....This is like an inquisition, and totally unneccessary, as well as uncalled for, but as I said, tomorrow, I will continue to address you seemingly endless list of questions.

As I mentioned before, I have made it clear as to WHER your NY/NYC affiliates can find and "test" me, if they want to take this a step further.....since mapquest usually really sucks, Ill even be more than happy to furnish them with directions , if necessary, and again, it will be MY pleasure....of that, you can rest assured....and whoever decides to "visit" me neednt worry....Ill make it known to the other bouncers that under NO circumstances are they to get involved. Just remember...I didnt get the nickname "The Sandman" for nothin'. I truly hope that someone from your organization has the sack to "step up to the plate".....so far theres been a lot of talk.....and as I said, Ill do my best to try to "un confuse you and yours". But I believe it was "Lumberjack" that invited me to a "throwdown" if thats what you call it......But I prefer to make it REAL.....no rings, no rules, no bells, no pads.no time limits....

[sambosteve]

Except for lumberjack, nobody has even mentioned anything about testing you. Why do you keep bringing it up?

For those who are interested, I did do some research on the NY SPCC and found an old article (very old...1908) outlining the history of the agency as a odd mix of state ageny and private society. According to this old piece they do in fact have "agents" under their employ.
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=000...3E2.0.CO%3B2-3

The NYSPCC website does not indicate this fuction today. However, there are a few informational pages about the NYSPCC on other website that do suggest such investigative functions of the NYSPCC.

Also, for knifehand:

I did locate (and verify) Alexander Kirk's obituary which confirms much of what you have claimed. From the Honolulu Star Bullitin: http://starbulletin.com/2006/08/24/news/obits.html

Alexander Kirk
Aug. 21, 2006
Alexander Kirk, 57, of Pahoa, Hawaii, chief of the Hawaii Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children and Animals, died in Hilo Medical Center. He was born in Arizona. He is survived by son James Paulus and numerous foster children. Visitation: 6-9 p.m. Monday at Dodo Mortuary. Cremation to follow Tuesday. Casual attire.

[It is Fake]

http://www.nyspcc.org/beta_history/index_history.htm


Now the above is the original NYSPCC.

http://www.northcountrygazette.org/a...onyEntity.html
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/200...feb23a_06.html
http://www.empirestatenews.net/News/20050606-1.htm

Now, the above link has nothing to do with Kirk or Jules. It came up in a search when I tried looking for Chief of Police or police NYSPCC.

In the first link it talks about being set up like a police department.


http://starbulletin.com/2006/08/24/news/obits.html

Obit concerning Mr. Kirk. R.I.P.

[It is Fake]

I am going to sleep. I will do the best I can to continue to answer your lengthly list of questions....This is like an inquisition, and totally unneccessary, as well as uncalled for, but as I said, tomorrow, I will continue to address you seemingly endless list of questions.

As I mentioned before, I have made it clear as to WHER your NY/NYC affiliates can find and "test" me, if they want to take this a step further.....since mapquest usually really sucks, Ill even be more than happy to furnish them with directions , if necessary, and again, it will be MY pleasure....of that, you can rest assured....and whoever decides to "visit" me neednt worry....Ill make it known to the other bouncers that under NO circumstances are they to get involved. Just remember...I didnt get the nickname "The Sandman" for nothin'. I truly hope that someone from your organization has the sack to "step up to the plate".....so far theres been a lot of talk.....and as I said, Ill do my best to try to "un confuse you and yours". But I believe it was "Lumberjack" that invited me to a "throwdown" if thats what you call it......But I prefer to make it REAL.....no rings, no rules, no bells, no pads.no time limits....

Look threatening to fight people isn't going to stop the "inquisition" as you call it. There are many skilled people who don't hold rank. Your skill doesn't necessarily equal your rank.

[sambosteve]

In the first link it talks about being set up like a police department.

Those three link all discuss the misrepresentation as police. However, apparently all SPCCs, while they may be different incorporated entities, are inter-related in NY under their mission statements, legal responsibilities and rights.

For those interested, here is a copy of the suit: http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/200...01751-2005.pdf

It is an interesting read in that is describes the legal paramenters of any SPCC in New York State and how the King County SPCC violated those parameters.

[sambosteve]

Here is a very long investigative report by the NY State Commission of investigation on all the New York SPCCs in regards to their practices. It details the legal responsibilities and boundaries of all NY area SPCCs.
http://www.sic.state.ny.us/Docs/Publ...s/pdf/spcc.PDF

Apparently, the "paece officer" status of SPCC agents is a very hot issue. It is actually quite scary as one reads though this report (from 2001)...in regards to the lack of oversight of SPCC investigative operations and how and who are chosen as agents for the SPCC in New York. This report describes some very serious problems with that system and recommend repealing the statutory provisions given to SPCCs in New York.

Apparently, the "peace officer" status was granted in the 1870's when the SPCCs were founded because there wer no formal governmental agencies to provide that function. However, over time, federal and state agencies did develop, but the SPCCs maintained their antiquated status - and lack of oversight. Essentially the 100+ year old laws were never changed to adapt to new times and investigative practices. Nor was any oversight of SPCC operation developed. Prior to the 20th century SPCCs were the primary child rescue groups (investigation, arrest, prosecution), however, they have not adpted well to the child protection model now used (social services, etc).

From the report:

Upon joining the SPCC, members are neither finger printed nor photographeed, and are not subject to any state-supervised screening process to ensure that only those persons properly suited to working with abused and neglected children are accepted into the organization. The opportunity to become a peace officer and utilize police type powers associatied with that status continues to make these organizations attractive to persons who should not and otherwise could not become legitimate law enforcement officers entrusted withthe protection and care of children.

At the time of this commission, Many SPCCs were operating as para-police organizations with, agents being badged, carrying firearms, and wearing plain clothes. Many agents were of questionable backgrounds including outstanding warrants and criminal histories. Four of the NY State SPCC's were not offering any services at all, others were being used, according to the report as "nothing more than a corporate shell designed soley to circumvent New York firearms licensing laws".

Apparently, some laws have been changed, but little change has occurred in many of the SPCCs. At the time of this report the Kings County SPCC was a target of a failed investigation. However, it seems according to the above links, they have now been forced to dissolve.

At the time of this report there were 14 SPCCs operating in NYS - 5 of which were deemed as operating as proper social service protection agencies. The NY SPCC (oldest one, Manhattan) seems to be the most legit in it's operations and, according to this report does not carry out investigations. It only offers social and protective services. However, of the 32 employees, 5 were designated as peace officers and badged (not permitted to carry firearms). The report goes on the describe the activities of all of the NY State SPCCs - both positive and negative. Some were VERY negative.

I should say that this information does not necessarily reflect on Mr. Hoenig. It is only an offshoot of the discussion which arose on SPCC. In fact, if Mr. Hoenig does work with the SPCC, this info confirms that SPCC members can be classified as agents. In fact, there are SPCCs doing great work as well, so this is not an indictment of Hoenig. Only a description of the problems with the organization for which he works/has worked.

[Gezere]

Jules please STFU about being tested. There are many here, myself included, who are more than capable of meeting you and doing damage. However that is not the issue at hand here. The issue here is about YOUR claims and how FULL OF SHIT they are. You haven't done anything yet to prove them. If you are not going to do that then you will continue to be rediculed. Don't like it? TOUGH. But here we hate BS artist.

[It is Fake]

Yes, they do great work.

Police Chief doesn't equal Agent nor chief of the Hawaii Division of.....

[sambosteve]

Police Chief doesn't equal Agent nor chief of the Hawaii Division of.....

Agreed. His Obit stated "Chief" and Hoenig referred to him as "Chief of Police". And, based on everything I have (and posted here) read on the SPCC, there is no Police connection with the societies at all...at least not in NYS. In fact, it is the misrepresentation as police that is a major problem with many SPCCs.

Of course there is no indication that Kirk was in any way a part of that activity. And clearly, he was titled Chief, not Chief of Police...based on his Obit.

[Uri Shatil]

So, Mr. Kirk, rest in peace, is definately confirmed as the chief of the Hawaii SPCC. That is no longer an issue. Currently, I would like to address some of the other, more general issues.

First: The throwdown. Mr. Hoenig, a "throwdown" is an organized, refereed fight in a controlled enviorment, not someone waltzing in to your place of work to be beaten up. In addition, we never doubted your fighting skills, only that you claim very high ranks in a broad range of martial arts.


Second: I would like to respond to one of your comments.

Additionally, just out of my curiousity....who are you (as a group), and what makes you think that you have the right, let alone the credentials to "fact check" ANYONES background ???

I've tried my best to be polite, and please excuse me for doing this, but...

Oh, shit! I forgot! I need to get my fact-checking license renewed! I've gotta head down to the DWGFAR (the Department of Who Gets their First Ammendment Rights)! While I'm at it, I'll also want to renew my newspaper reading permit.


Third: We cannot be satisfied by anything you say unless you can prove it. If you have a diploma, scan it and upload the picture. If you say you've trained under somebody, have them confirm your claims in such a way that it can be proven real (ie a video). As we continue to work with you, your claims are becoming more and more believable, but you must understand that if we took every single person by their word then we would hardly have a mission.


Fourth: To the above post, if you call someone "chief of police" instead of "chief," it's not an outright lie. What does the "chief" do for the SPCC? What does the "chief of police" do for the SPCC? I'm sure if you asked Mr. Hoenig what the "chief of police" did, you would get the exact same description as if you asked him what the "chief" did. The difference is small enough so that it can not be called lying or BS. It's certainly not completely accurate. It's like that guy in The Office, Dwight Schrute, who's the "Assistant to the Regional Manager" but he calls himself "Assistant Regional Manager." It's not a lie, it's just a way of phrasing things to make it sound better. And no, that's not BS. If it was, there would not be a single legit MA school in this country.