"Master Jules" CQB Bullshido in New York?

[sdave]

You tell me, Counselor... I'm just passing on what I read upthread.

http://www.sic.state.ny.us/Docs/Publ...s/pdf/spcc.PDF

At the very least it seems plausible, that Mr. H was, in fact, a peace officer.

[GoldenJonas]

So they simply hand a badge and arrest powers to anyone? How is New York State going to keep someone from impersonating an officer? "I'm pulling you over" "Why?" "Err, child abuse".

Actually, that is what I took from Steve's post a few pages back, i.e., SPCC is under fire for officers abusing there "peace officer" designation, which apparently includes the ability to make arrests.

Apparently, the "paece officer" status of SPCC agents is a very hot issue. It is actually quite scary as one reads though this report (from 2001)...in regards to the lack of oversight of SPCC investigative operations and how and who are chosen as agents for the SPCC in New York. This report describes some very serious problems with that system and recommend repealing the statutory provisions given to SPCCs in New York.

Apparently, the "peace officer" status was granted in the 1870's when the SPCCs were founded because there wer no formal governmental agencies to provide that function. However, over time, federal and state agencies did develop, but the SPCCs maintained their antiquated status - and lack of oversight. Essentially the 100+ year old laws were never changed to adapt to new times and investigative practices. Nor was any oversight of SPCC operation developed. Prior to the 20th century SPCCs were the primary child rescue groups (investigation, arrest, prosecution), however, they have not adpted well to the child protection model now used (social services, etc).

From the report:

At the time of this commission, Many SPCCs were operating as para-police organizations with, agents being badged, carrying firearms, and wearing plain clothes. Many agents were of questionable backgrounds including outstanding warrants and criminal histories. Four of the NY State SPCC's were not offering any services at all, others were being used, according to the report as "nothing more than a corporate shell designed soley to circumvent New York firearms licensing laws".

[It is Fake]

So they simply hand a badge and arrest powers to anyone? How is New York State going to keep someone from impersonating an officer? "I'm pulling you over" "Why?" "Err, child abuse".

That's what lead to the problem and the voluntary shut down of one of the NY related SPCCs. They aren't interrelated and operate under different charters. So, the NYSPCC is different form (Example only) YonkersSPCC.

As I said in the initial posts this doesn't detract from Mr. Kirk or Mr. Hoenig's work.

[sambosteve]

I am sure you could contact the appropriate SPCCs and ask for a list of their employees who are designated peace officers.

One interesting question regarding Hoenig and Kirk is this:

If all the SPCCs are independently operating societies/corporate entities, how could a Hawaii SPCC Chief swear in a NY SPCC agent/member? Based on the NY commission report, I did not see a whole lot of coorperation between the various NY SPCCs. BTW, It is a long report (95 pages), but well worth reading. In Hoenig's case it may have been a simple as getting Kirk's reference for the NY SPCC for his post. But, I am sure the appropriate SPCC could confirm the status of any of their current and former agents/members.

I do find use of the word "cop" misleading in regard to his position with the SPCC.

[Fantasy Warrior]

Actually, that is what I took from Steve's post a few pages back, i.e., SPCC is under fire for officers abusing there "peace officer" designation, which apparently includes the ability to make arrests.

Exactly, I don't think being a member of SPCC legitimises someone calling themselves' a "cop" or them or their piers "Police Chiefs" especially in a context that may be intended to add credibility to their martial arts training/instructions; it's blatantly misleading. A bit like putting an image of heavily armed SAS troopers on an advert for commercial body guarding by someone without that background and/or not offering (in a credible sense) that service - again bodyguarding has an implied (if flimsy) relationship with self-defence and/or martial arts.


I am somewhat unimpressed that someone can 'legitimately' go from ungraded to 5th Dan in Aikido.

[Sam Browning]

I would like to ask Mr. Hoenig which specific SPCC granted him officer status and presumably arrest powers, and during what period of time.

[It is Fake]

SPCC could confirm the status of any of their current and former agents/members.

I do find use of the word "cop" misleading in regard to his position with the SPCC.

I find cop and, as I said earlier, Chief of Police misleading even with the explanations.

[knifehand1]

So you do basically call yourself a "cop" when in fact you were an SPCC volunteer. And Mr Kirk also had a badge purporting to be "police" as opposed to just SPCC. Have you ever used the term "Volunteer Detective" to describe yourself online?

I was a duly sworn officer of the court, sworn in by Master Kirk, who was the Chief of the SPCC. The reason why I stated that I was a "volunteer", was because protecting children is something that I feel very strongly about, and did not accept, or receive any pay for what I did......What is the point of your question ?

[knifehand1]

"At the time, I was a duly sworn officer of the court."

Are you saying that you had arrest powers in New York State beyond that of a civilian?

That is correct.

[knifehand1]

On your MySpace page you have the following image accompanied by the title:

"CQB TACTICS Bodyguard and Personal Security Specialists
, New Rochelle NY US
OWNER"



The picture depicts British SAS troopers (or like) with machine-guns, gas masks and NBC suites, and the name you gave your martial art. Is their attire and equipment an accurate representation of your professional background and/or martial art?

Do you own a gas mask?

The picture is obviously NOT of me, but I thought it would be a good logo to use for my security/bodyguard business. I DO, however, own most of the equiptment seen in the photo, including firearms, as well as a gas mask....just out of curiousity....why do you ask ?

[knifehand1]

So you do basically call yourself a "cop" when in fact you were an SPCC volunteer. And Mr Kirk also had a badge purporting to be "police" as opposed to just SPCC. Have you ever used the term "Volunteer Detective" to describe yourself online?

Again, as mentioned in another post, I "volunteered" for the job, because I had a good paying job at the time, and felt strongly about the purpose of the SPCC, and didnt need to draw a salary. When I started, as ws mentioned again in an earlier post, I was just an "agent". As time progressed, I was promoted to "special agent". Those are the terms used to describe SPCC officers.

[knifehand1]

Exactly, I don't think being a member of SPCC legitimises someone calling themselves' a "cop" or them or their piers "Police Chiefs" especially in a context that may be intended to add credibility to their martial arts training/instructions; it's blatantly misleading. A bit like putting an image of heavily armed SAS troopers on an advert for commercial body guarding by someone without that background and/or not offering (in a credible sense) that service - again bodyguarding has an implied (if flimsy) relationship with self-defence and/or martial arts.


For the record, under Master kirks guidance and training (Police wise), I have been trained in everything from tactical evasive driving techniques to forced tactical entry no knock warrants. I have also been trained in sniping tactics, stalking techniques, as well as gilly suit camoflauge. Whether you believe me or not, I really dont care.

I am somewhat unimpressed that someone can 'legitimately' go from ungraded to 5th Dan in Aikido.

Again, whether you are impressed, or unimpressed, I really dont care about that either. As I said before, many times, youre more than welcome to "test" my abilities( or lack of according to you) anytime you wish.

[mad_malk]

The picture is obviously NOT of me, but I thought it would be a good logo to use for my security/bodyguard business. I DO, however, own most of the equiptment seen in the photo, including firearms, as well as a gas mask....just out of curiousity....why do you ask ?

PLz accept this with some levity but. I want a baclav too!!!!!!!:ninjafigh
And of the firearms you mentioned are you stateing you posess an H&K Mp5 as a class III or just an Mp5? also who's issue gasmask are you useing and whats it's rateing?

and again I wanna baclav :ninjafigh :ninjadanc :ninja2: :qright5:

If the levity is inapropriate i apoligize.

[knifehand1]

You tell me, Counselor... I'm just passing on what I read upthread.

http://www.sic.state.ny.us/Docs/Publ...s/pdf/spcc.PDF

At the very least it seems plausible, that Mr. H was, in fact, a peace officer.

I forgot, but there may be a picture of me on my MySpace page showing me with my badge hanging around my neck....if not (Ill check now)....Ill download it.

[Locu5]

Do you ever travel outside of NY, Jules?