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broadsword or katana???

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    the jian, who did you get it through and what sort of blade weight has it got? The only non-stamped 440SS blades I've spotted were way too heavy in my opinion, doubling the weight of the Viking Migration period blades I've worked with.


      Is the HISTORY CHANNEL crap Matt W, or you? Maybe it was like 50 pounds but it's still heavy. Learn your weapon stuff in books or discovery channel or history channel, not some web site trying to sell swords or whatever.
      A knife or swords strength and ability to hold an edge is due to impurity amounts which affects hardness and weight. The less impurities also mean it will not rust like a carbon blabe will.
      There is a code to metal types depending on molecular makeup.

      "the only thing promised in life is death, everything else is achievement"


        A katana vs. jian would be more interesting. In reference to the original question, the katana is a far superior weapon to the Chinese 'dan dao' or broad sword. You have to think about their respective uses. What you are proposing is a duel. The Chinese broadsword is not a dueling weapon and is really wuite a bit SLOWER than a katana, well technically heavier and less agile.

        A 'dan dao' is a mass produced weapon, designed mainly for battlefield combat. Many of the techniques are designed for dealing with multiple opponents. Not 1 vs. 10 but rather 10,000 vs. 10,000. A lot of the 'flowery' moves have use in crssing distance through crowds in a hurry or include incidental blocks to help protect your backside. Rushing to your comrads side, etc. It is a weapon for the grunt.
        Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!

        Bah!!! Puny Humans.


          blue-dragon is all the wrong ways.

          Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog



            No, the History Channle isn't "crap", but your piss poor memory of it is. The axes your reffering to went at much closer to 15 lbs than 50, sorry, that's just the way it was. The Sword Forum isn't a site trying to sell swords, its a message board and site dedicated to the descussion of weapons from multiple cultures and sources. Its populated by people who are expert smiths, enthusists, military and weapon/arms historians and collectors, ie. people who know what the hell they are talking about.

            No, in nonstainless steal, the strength of a blade depends on its carbon content and tempering. Higher carbon contents, that are evenly distributed throughout the steal, lead to harder blades that will hold an finer edge. Temper determines the over all hardness of the blade and the flexibility it has. Weight is controled by the size and shape of the blade. If its steal, "impurities" are things like lead, copper, zinc, can affect the weight, but not to a signifigent degree until you reach very large weapons. If it won't rust, its stainless steal, which is utter crap for any sword, won't temper propperly and is way too damned heavy. Carbon steal is what combat swords are made from Blue, sorry to disappoint you. Ask any reputable sword smith and that's what they will tell you.

            Want to find historically accurate weapons?

            In fact, since your caught up in the huscarl's weapon of choice,

            Doesn't give a weight, but seeing as how its patterned to be an exact reproduction of the original, how does that weigh in at 50+ pounds?

            That "code" RC? Rockwell hardness, carbon content and temper play the largest roles here.



              I have several jians that vary in size and weight. The heavist one I suspect to be Tibetian either in orgin or influence. I is far sturdier than the others but I haven taken it apart yet to see how the construction was done. I got that one as part of a weapons trade and it been sitting in a case since I move. I probably going to get to it soon since no one watched my blades while I was gone wit hout maintence. (My presish Katar are showing rust!!!!)

              Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!!
              Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

              RIP SOLDIER

              Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
              -Gene, GODHAND

              You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
              The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
              -Daniel Tosh


                To all:)

                Last time katana /kyo-gunto/ was used in combat Japan lost the war...Long live KA-BAR

                Semper Fidelis!!!


                  Is the HISTORY CHANNEL crap Matt W, or you?
                  The history channel. Duh. Good lord, they are the ones who still propogate all that "broadswords weighed twenty pounds" and "an armored knight couldn't get back up if he fell down" crap.

                  Listen, here's a must read for you, kid... Anything by Ewart Oakeshott. Or get a catalog of antique weapons that have weights listed. Or go on line and do a search for weights of actual historical weapons. Or ask a metalurgist or physicist how big a volume of steel you need to get 65lbs, and how big an axehead would have to be to weigh that much. The idea of a 65lb axe, let alone someone being able to effectively wield one, is STUPID.

                  Maybe it was like 50 pounds but it's still heavy
                  LOL. You can't even remember the exact weight but you're still arguing this hard for it? Idiot.

                  A knife or swords strength and ability to hold an edge is due to impurity amounts which affects hardness and weight.
                  Of course impurities affect a steel's quality, and therefor what you can do with it. But strength and edge retention are based mostly off of hardness.

                  Sorry the history channel lied to you. But hey, I was pissed off when I found I had been lied to about medieval arms and combat too! It's okay though. The truth is much, much cooler.



                  Homer: What do you have to wash this awful taste down with?

                  Vendor: Crab juice and Mountain Dew.

                  Homer: Yeeuch! Bleh! Ugh! ... I'll have a crab juice!

                  Edited by - Matt W. on September 13 2003 08:57:20


                    I don't think so, and I do practice a M.A. that has Kenjutsu in it.
                    Unlike most peoples perception swords were secondary weapons at best for most armies. The first weapons were archeries and a variety of halberds, spears etc.
                    actually, infantry constituted most of the army and archers were secondary. archery was used to force enemies into different strategic locations. a purely infantry army may survive but an army of only archers would be slaughtered while dealing probably no casualties


                      First of all, I dont think either of them would be a "superior warrior". But, Id say the katana guy would have the upper hand. As long as he is quick on his feet, he shouldn't have to worry about the broadsword too much. Why?? He cant block, a broadsword would destroy a katana. So he has to get out of the way... and if he gets hit, hes dead, its a broadsword after all.

                      Personally, I would want a long sword of some kind. Something similar to Braveharts claymore, but a bit smaller. Something of European style. I could wreck shit with one of those.


                        Heads up people...

                        "Brilliant" Japanesse were using a 3/4 inch BAMBOO PEG to hold the blade in katana. It took WW2 to teach them how to make pegs out of metal...Pathetic.
                        One "military weapon expert" told me that the katana was the most devastating weapon in the arsenal of samurai. Bold face lie!
                        You guys know the answer to this one...
                        Lets presume that IT was the deadliest weapon /nuke or greek fire of its age/ then how come all other nations keen on world dominance did not follow the suit?
                        Simple, takes more than a fancy forged rayskin wrapped cord tied weapon to win any war...
                        As far as my preferance, any weapon will due when at hand when needed.



                          Hey, the photo example you linked is not proper japanese sword. It is called Wakizashi and it is actually short katana.

                          As of Broadsword and katana, it's all depends. Are both contestants wearing armour? Are broadsword holder allowed to carry sheild? Is this dueling or battlefiedl.

                          To be honest, I think katana user would have bit of advantage if and only if the user are quite experienced. Heavier sword and slightly shorter sword are easier to use hence it was given to relatively inexperience foot soldier. In this respect, broadsword is better. On the other hand, more experienced fighter would find heavier sword bit too slow for their need. Again, sword or any other weapons were only mean to the end. In dueling, obviousl advantage was stabing weapon like European rapier but they are completely useless in battlefield. And among traditional weapon, spear (or halberd) was king because of its range but this also depended on battlefield.


                            Or is it a katana of death touch vs a golden broadsword of holy might? Because if it is golden broadsword of holy might, isn't that +9 with protection from normal weapons? Then it would be a no contest, because the katana's death touch would be nullified against the holy aura! That is unless the katana wielder has a ring of elven heroes that grants the user polymorph into lesser deity once per day, in which case the katana wielder would win easily as the avatar pet would overwhelm his mortal opponent!


                              Heads up people...

                              "Brilliant" Japanesse were using a 3/4 inch BAMBOO PEG to hold the blade in katana. It took WW2 to teach them how to make pegs out of metal...Pathetic.
                              One "military weapon expert" told me that the katana was the most devastating weapon in the arsenal of samurai. Bold face lie!
                              You guys know the answer to this one...
                              Very interesting info. about the bamboo peg, never heard of that before. Is there a link anywhere on the net? Not saying I don't believe you, I just want to know more.

                              Tend to agree about the Katana comments in WW2. In my old Aus Army reserve headquaters they had captured Japanese Katana's. Five years later, in martial arts classes, people were trying to tell me they could cut through gun barrels with the things...and that allied troops were terified of them...

                              Actually, I have a feeling, that the average American GI or Aussie "Digger" wasn't really that scared of the Katana, once you had your nice big long bayonet attached to your rifle. Then it becomes sword against spear...

                              My grandfather always told me that after the war, in reaction to Australians complaining about "beheadings" of captured POW's, the Japanese countered that Australian troops were "cruel" with their bayonets...

                              Of course, all young kids these day hear is about invincible samurai and their magical Katanas'. Though I like Japanese swordmanship and Katana's, the BS that has grown around it just puts me off...

                              Also, it's a shame Kendo's seems to be so rare these's the only Japanese style were people will do a bit of cross-sparring. All of the other stuff....kata, kata and some more kata. And then two man Kata!!


                                Nice post, thanks for the website... I've been looking to buy some authentic replicas'.

                                You're spot on about stainless steel, it just sucks..



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