Choi Kwang Do, the delusion continues

[saman]

Much ado was made that kwang jo choi and choi kwang do were welcomed by the World Tae Kwon Do Martial Arts Federation . I guess this was a ploy to try to make people think that the WTF and Kukkiwon were now endorsing choi kwang do as a legitimate form of TKD. Unfortunately, an extensive search fails to turn up any such organisation that is really an organisation! Also, after all the hoo-ha about how TKD is SO AWFUL, it seems strange that now he wants the validation of some TKD group.

[madmonkey]

http://www.kennesawckd.com/DSC00173.JPG
Check out this photo looks like you can literally grab a black belt off the wall, Talk about mcdojo this must be the drive through version.

[saman]

They tell us that they hang there for "inspiration" and "motivation" to "persevere" to black belt. I guess we should add, "the general attitude that one GETS a black belt" to the signs of a McDojang:cussing:They believe that you deserve a black belt after persevering (or their parents persevering in bringing the little darling) through 18 paid tests, as opposed to EARNING their black belt when they have personally persevered to gain the mental, physical and technical expertise of a black belt. In fact, they make tons of $$$$ selling a $15 embroidered black belt for $40+. It's just like the testing process. Regardless of how shitty you are, you pass and get promoted, especially in the school where the picture was taken (their headquarters school in GA). Testing is an important revenue stream to choi kwang do and all the school owners are expected to buy into the philosophy. Think about it. All testing fees are shared with headquarters in various %ages - depending on the school owner (although that is not public knowledge) Just in whole numbers, consider this: a student who stays all the way to 2nd degree black belt pays for 17 color belt tests, a $200 (+) 1st dan, 8 more 1st dan stripe tests and a $300 (+) 2nd dan test. In there some place is often the offer, request, demand, coercion to pay for instructor training/certification ($10,000 & up). Even if the student withstands the carrot-on-stick of getting to wear a blue or black uniform and be allowed to teach (no pay - it's an "apprenticeship", you know), that comes up to $1875 (+, because I heard that they went up on dan testing fees). Not that there's anything evil in students paying for testing or in masters making a fair living teaching their art. It's just that choi kwang do purports to be one thing when it is really something else. :eusa_wall

[saman]

:bowdown:This is the choi kwang do organisational chart.

[odyssey11]

His site is well worth a look although the dedicated bullie should be forearmed with a sick-bag because if you missed the other threads what you are about to see will make you sick inside.

I did not take this warning seriously.
I just threw up in my lap.
Next time I'll know better and will heed the advice of the more experienced bullie.

[xxmarkpark]

i never knew this kinda.... dancing existed... yea its art, but it loses the meaning of the word "martial".

[mi_man_us]

I taught Choi's Tae Kwon-Do, then his Kwang Duk-Do before it became Choi Kwang-Do back in the 80's as an instructor for the Head Instructor in the state of Michigan.

Even back then, he would promote people for basically showing up. I saw people forget their forms and get a "probationary" promotion.

At least back then, there were a few less tests, and we actually sparred, and it was a little old school. For my last test with him, I had to spar 3 2nd instructors at the same time...and it was a little ugly.

[Onime]

if you have the time, read this to find out why no one should be doing CKD , and how flawed and hollowed it's system is ...

link: http://www.ksdi.net/resign.htm

[saman]

Wow. You're a real "old timer". I guess he's changed some moves, but ethically he is still the same old con artist:copdance:

[Fantasy Warrior]

I taught Choi's Tae Kwon-Do, then his Kwang Duk-Do before it became Choi Kwang-Do back in the 80's as an instructor for the Head Instructor in the state of Michigan.

Even back then, he would promote people for basically showing up. I saw people forget their forms and get a "probationary" promotion.

At least back then, there were a few less tests, and we actually sparred, and it was a little old school. For my last test with him, I had to spar 3 2nd instructors at the same time...and it was a little ugly.

Thanks for posting and please share more about CKD. Personally I'm particularly interested in the "self Defence" aspect; whether the training meets the claims presented to the student/customer. But all aspects of McDojoism are also good info to forewarn prospective students and their guardians.

[Bolverk]

Wow, kind of looks like ATA Martial Arts sparring to me. To busy teaching life skills to teach martial arts I guess.

What do you think Master Goins???

[saman]

Self-defence, ckd style is an illusion (for the "believers', a delusion!) I guess, if you go on YouTube, or go back to links on this thread, you will see for yourself the slow, pitiful examples in some ckd black belt tests. the guy you quoted who talked about his sparring experience was a LONG time ago! Now days, little/no contact (we are told to tell students that this is because their punches and kicks are SO powerful now that it could cause death/brutal punishment to sparring partner etc. OH PLEASE!) The truth is that ckd students learn no control for punching or kicking because choi tells people that control requires pulling kicks/punches and other nonsense. choi was ITF and OLD ITF at that. he claims to have kept up, but it is bullshit. his so-called consultations with "doctors" amounted to a couple of hours talking to a couple of chiropractors. His widely proclaimed research proof is un-replicated (a requirement for scientific research, right?) old, flawed and skewed. the tkd practitioners did not perform a comparable punch! Maybe they were old ITF, too. A WTF black belt would have performed a straight punch and also used their hips and sequential motion etc. The lies abound and the leadership is dishonest. It is all about $$$ and that is why so many of us chief instructors/school owners have left. Check out Master Roger Koo's website at ksdi.net or, to see 20+ choi school owners who have recently left the ckd organisation in disgust, go to http://www.choikwangdo-fl.com and look at their locations list. The Elrods were very loyal school owners who worked hard to build up the number of ckd schools in their area of Florida (USA) and finally became fed up with the nonsense from ckdmai.

[roscopeeco]

@saman
you may well have a number of valid points but what you fail to mention is that a lot of the instructors that have left Choi still use the same techniques and execution methods in their syllabuses (apart from Roger Koo).

They may have left because of disillusionment with the Organisation and all of its shenanigans but they are happy with the strength of the core striking system or they would not continue to use those techniques.


I also have to pick you up of the too deadly to spar bullshit that you espoused. I have never been told by any instructor that that is the reason there is no 'traditional' sparring.

[roscopeeco]

@saman
you also mention that students learn no control for punching

we are taught to punch either with speed or with full power on shields with as many different techniques as possible...the idea is that if you do actually engage in a street fight you want to get as many techniques out there as quickly as possible ...hopefully with the outcome that it will overwhelm your opponent and the fight will end...BUT your in a street fight so there are no guarantees on anything.

Why would you want to control your punching in a street fight? You want to go hell for leather with whatever tools you've got.

There is a student in my class whose technique is absolutely stinking but who has a lot of power...when he comes at you he looks out of control...at the end of the day we are talking about self defence so if it doesn't look pretty who gives a toss...if it looks out of control and scary all the better

[El Neko]

The problem with that line of thinking is, what happens when you find a competent striker going against you?