Dont buy the Core Combat training DVDs from Damian Ross or Carl Cestari

[Carpe Noctem]

So, is the material on these DVD's newer than what's already out there? I have some old videos of Carl; the bareknuckle boxing, CQC vs. holds/grabs, and the "dirty judo" tape. Cestari and his uke were filmed in an old church basement wearing black BDUs and boots. These vids are from approximately '88-'89.

Very good, but very basic material.

[zadar95]

Well cobra Kai(Karate Kid) the first claim"cut your training time in half" guess it depends how much you want to train(your answer) that to me doesent fullfill a claim."have your opponet smash his hands on your elbows, (your answer)Yeah, they probably would, if they hit my elbows. So that claim they get because by luck or pure skill you can get him to hit your elbows with his hands everytime, doesent once again fullfill a claim."the real secrets of bare knuckle boxing(your answer)I found that Cestari's DVD improved my bare knuckle boxing quite a bit. Im actually asking not as an insult but how did it improve your bare Knuckle game??How to effectively create opennings even on expert grapplers(your answer)Cestari's grappling DVD has a lot of the same stuff as Randy Couture's ground and pound DVD. Though I prefer Cestari's stuff for SD, as he acknowleges punching the guy in the nuts as a guard passing option!! I by the way agree with the punching the guy in the nuts for openning the gaurd, but what if your hands are tied up and you cant punch?? As far as the awareness stuff goes to say simple look over your shoulder well thats great but I think a little short of what I would expect from the DvDs as far as awareness is concerned.

[Askari]

but what if your hands are tied up and you cant punch??

What if there is lava on the ground?

What a dumb question.

A: Dont engage in bondage.

edited to add, Never question again the superiority of Cobrai Kai.

[Cdnronin]

, Never question again the superiority of Cobrai Kai.

Oh, can't I, just this once?

[Cdnronin]

cdnronin as far as reading the ads goes I read the ad several times and if it wasnt as misleading as it was I wouldent have bought them. If it had actually said you will get 3 DvDs of us strictly answering every claim with "just hit em" as the answer I would of never bought them.(Thank God for money back gaurantees)

Man, that's a lot of getting your panties in a twist over something with a money back guarantee.

Now, any responses to questions about the misleading advertising and fake back history provided by your head instructor?

[PPlate]

zadar95,
Have you ever called either Cestari or Ross to express your dissapointment about their tapes and ask for your money back?

If that's what you wanted, and you didn't have another agenda, don't you think that would be a much more productive way to settle this?

[zadar95]

As far as the lineage issue goes contact Bill Wolfe and ask him. www.defendo.com. As far as me expressing my opinion about the DvDs being less than satisfactory, what agenda would I be pushing??? How about the fact that I simply wanted to express my opinion!!!!

[PPlate]

As far as me expressing my opinion about the DvDs being less than satisfactory, what agenda would I be pushing??? How about the fact that I simply wanted to express my opinion!!!!

Because the title of your thread is "Don't buy the CC training DVDs....etc."

That's not expressing an opinion, that sounds more like driving away business from the people selling the DVDs. Not that I care either way you understand.

If you'd wanted to just express your opinion, your thread title would've read something like "Dissapointed with Core Combat DVDs."

[Cdnronin]

As far as the lineage issue goes contact Bill Wolfe and ask him. www.defendo.com. As far as me expressing my opinion about the DvDs being less than satisfactory, what agenda would I be pushing??? How about the fact that I simply wanted to express my opinion!!!!

Because, as we all know, someone who advertises a questionable lineage for marketing purposes will always be forthcoming when asked directly about it from someone who has no intention of buying anything from him. Odd, that he no longer claims to be the heir to the Fairbairn system. wonder why? Not effective enough for marketing purposes/ Or could there be another reason?

I will repeat, Wolfe has a good system and teaches hard core, but it is not a Fairbairn derived system.

PS. How come the picture for the Expanded Hand to Hand combat traing during the Camp X era is from Arwrology, a manual that has nothing to do with either Camp X or Fairbairn?
Should we maybe take a look at the Instrucotr's notes for the Silent Killing Syllabus from 1943(after Fairbairn had left Camp X) to see the opinion on joint locks etc? I can dig it up if anyone is interested.

Being completely at odds with all known historical documents usually is not a good sign for being "authentic".But we could ask Wolfe. Or you could start questioning whar your being taught.

[Jim_Jude]

Should we maybe take a look at the Instrucotr's notes for the Silent Killing Syllabus from 1943(after Fairbairn had left Camp X) to see the opinion on joint locks etc? I can dig it up if anyone is interested.

Being completely at odds with all known historical documents usually is not a good sign for being "authentic".But we could ask Wolfe. Or you could start questioning whar your being taught.

Dig it up, sure. Why not?

[Cdnronin]

Dig it up, sure. Why not?

Hang tight, I'll go to my library.

[Cdnronin]

From the December 1943 Silent Killing Syllabus:

All of the following,good as some of them are, are open to the objection that while attempting to apply them, you make yourself very vulnerable to attack. Also, if you are in a position to apply them, you are equally in a position to make a killing attack on your opponent. Why not do so?

Handcuff hold
Handcuff hold for smaller opponent
Wrist and neck attacks
Police or"come-along" holds
Flying mare and variations
hipe or hip throw
Wrist throw
Japanese ankle throw
Cross buttock

From the section The Boxing blows

The open-hand chin jab

Use of the knee

Use of the haed and elbow

Finger-tip jabs


I've left out the descriptions of how to apply the above techniques, but most folks will be familiar with them. Notice an absense of western boxing combinations(jab, cross, hook) as endorsed and reccomended by Wolfe on his core training video. Note the reccomendation to eliminate grabs, throws and locks, unlike the suggestion on the Defendo website that Joint locks(in this case a finger lock) constitutes advanced traing during the Camp X era. It would actually be paralell training, as I stated previously, the picture comes from the book Arwrology, a method of jiu jitsu with no connection to Fairbairn or Camp X.

[Jim_Jude]

From the December 1943 Silent Killing Syllabus:

All of the following,good as some of them are, are open to the objection that while attempting to apply them, you make yourself very vulnerable to attack. Also, if you are in a position to apply them, you are equally in a position to make a killing attack on your opponent. Why not do so?

Hmmm ...
That does present somewhat of a pickle, now doesn't it?

So Wolfe's curriculum doesn't jive with this, huh? Interesting...

[Cdnronin]

Hmmm ...
That does present somewhat of a pickle, now doesn't it?

So Wolfe's curriculum doesn't jive with this, huh? Interesting...

From the Defendo website:

CLOSE QUARTER CONTROL" Learn the science of joint manipulation and it's application in the real world. Join Bill as he breaks down advanced concepts in pain compliance and the details that make it work.

"GROUND CONTROL" Join the Wolfe bothers as they instruct MODERN DEFENDO's advanced ground control, including pain compliance, edged weapons and handgun disarms and more.

There are other videos available on different subjects, most of them I am sure quite good, but this doesn't mesh with Fairbairn's philosophy of paring away and only teaching the essentials. Again, I beleieve Wolfe has a good system, it is just not based on Fairbairn, nor is there any connection other than cashing in on the name.

When I was in contact with the Fairbairn family's official historian, he asked me if that Wolfe character was still making his claims. Makes it hard to believe Wolfe is the heir to the Fairbairn system.

[Sam Browning]

Who is the Fairbairn family historian and how may I contact them? I do have a question for them. PM is fine.