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Hey! You Got Your Philosophy In My Martial Arts! (and vice versa)

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    Hey! You Got Your Philosophy In My Martial Arts! (and vice versa)

    About a year ago, the master at my dojang was turned onto all this stuff about The Secret and the Law of Attraction and so on. Great. But soon, he was teaching it as part of the "Leadership Team" curriculum, which is a special program for the kids who actually try and give a shit, and a few who pretend they do. Not that they'd be tested on it, but they talk about it constantly, and the most recent "Leadership Seminar" consisted of watching the movie and then discussing what one thing . This got me thinking: what's this got to do with Taekwondo?

    Now for my question to all of you. This is not a thread about whether all that Law-of-Attraction-ish stuff is BS. Save it for Sociocide. What I am wondering is whether teaching it has any place in a martial arts program for adults. How ethical for a teacher is it to impose such a belief system on his students, who may or may not share his views? Is The Secret even relevant to the martial arts, or, if not, can it be adapted to them? Is my master unwittingly teaching bullshido? What about things like the Five Tenets of Taekwondo? They might work in kids classes, but are they irrelevant in an adult program?

    #2
    if i wanted philosophy, i would spend my time and money on class about philosophy

    instead i want judo, so i spend my time and money on judo classes. that kinda crap has no place in martial arts imo (unless you want to do it, and know what you are paying for)

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by roly
      unless you want to do it, and know what you are paying for
      I think that is the key point. Almost all martial arts instructors incorporate philosophy into their teachings, even if it's only "don't go randomly attack people." Some do a lot more, however. If you don't like it, then don't go to that school. As for it being bullshido, that depends on if the quality of instruction is being affected by the philosophy.

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        #4
        I think teaching that crap to children is worse than teaching it to adults. At least adults can call it on its bullshit. As the other posters said, it only sucks if you don't want to learn it. You get what you pay for.

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          #5
          No place at all, but you're going to have a hard time separating that from the BS nature of "The Secret."
          *********************************************

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            #6
            I just imagined someone trying to spout philosophy in my boxing gym, and mental image made me laugh so hard I just inhaled a piece of the pretzel I was eating. I doubt this thread will still be in MABS when I get back from blowing my nose.

            Comment


              #7
              I always thought that if you were a traditional Martial Artist it was the main point and the fact that some Martial Arts taught have been passed down from warriors and in a sense we are learning the "Ways of the Warrior". I believe in the importance of philosophy in Martial Arts training but then again i do study philosophy anyway.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by p00rusan
                I always thought that if you were a traditional Martial Artist it was the main point and the fact that some Martial Arts taught have been passed down from warriors and in a sense we are learning the "Ways of the Warrior". I believe in the importance of philosophy in Martial Arts training but then again i do study philosophy anyway.
                martial art = learning to fight, sure there is baggage attached to that eg. dont be a phsycho and plunder/kill/maim/rape/whatever

                but when all the philosophy gets in the way of the "learning to fight" part. thats the point where it slips from legitimate teaching and into bullshido

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by kwoww
                  Now for my question to all of you. This is not a thread about whether all that Law-of-Attraction-ish stuff is BS. Save it for Sociocide. What I am wondering is whether teaching it has any place in a martial arts program for adults.
                  Um, its hard to separate the Secret from the BS. If the point of Bullshido is to point out BS in the martial arts, then that should include teaching BS philosophy. Hell, if THE SECRET worked, no one would need to know a martial art - they could just imagine that the bad mugger was really a nymphomaniac cheerleader who wanted no strings attached sex and voila, no mugging.
                  Jesus loves you. I think you're an asshole.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by roly
                    martial art = learning to fight, sure there is baggage attached to that eg. dont be a phsycho and plunder/kill/maim/rape/whatever

                    but when all the philosophy gets in the way of the "learning to fight" part. thats the point where it slips from legitimate teaching and into bullshido
                    Not always. Tai Chi and Aikido have more to do with philosophy and chi and bullshit like that, especially Tai Chi. I do believe that martial arts dojo should teach (maybe teach isn't the word) but atleast instill character and all that in its students. No teaching any specific philosophies in general, but I think you know what I mean.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by p00rusan
                      I always thought that if you were a traditional Martial Artist it was the main point and the fact that some Martial Arts taught have been passed down from warriors and in a sense we are learning the "Ways of the Warrior". I believe in the importance of philosophy in Martial Arts training but then again i do study philosophy anyway.
                      If you actually study philosophy enough to get a degree in it...you learn that the shit people teach in dojangs...IS AN INSULT TO ACTUAL PHILOSOPHY.

                      Way of the warrior my ass...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I don't spend a lot of time (especially with the adults) so far as our tenets. However I believe that to the best of his ability, an instructor should show by example. There is nothing wrong with having a school creed, especially if you are doing more than paying it lip service.
                        Courtesy
                        Integrity
                        Self-control
                        Perseverance
                        Indomitable Spirit

                        All of the above can be found in tradtional teaching. martiaol arts is not just about how to fight and never has been. There have always been under-lying pinnings of how one can refine themselves by applying certain principles to the way they live.

                        In todays UFC MMA's, the focus is on winning in a fight. Not about being polite to everyone you encounter. I believe that sort of training should be for adults only, (in fact it is isn't it?) who like a pitbull, (and I love pits) love it when they are fighting, win or lose. I see nothing wrong with that mindset. Adults are adults and if fighting is what they love I am, all for it. I do however think it is bad form to allow a UFC style fight to be held at a venue where drinking is heavy.......and kids are allowed. Keep the kiddies home, let them watch the fights with their parents. From what I have seen (two I attended were held in a bar so it was not a problem) a couple of the fights have the kids listening to cursing and bad manners (toward the skimpy dressed ladies serving beer) and underage drinking that was obvious to me but apparently not noticed by the off-duty cops hired as security.
                        I think if we wish for MMA fights to flourish it should be a given that it either be held in an adult venue or there should be rules strictly enforced keeping out young kids and keeping the beer out of the 18 year olds hands. It would help keep MMA fights moving forward by showing they do not wish to have children present, (or just get rid of the beer) while a bunch of hyped up drunken parents are screaming obscenities all around.

                        But then they do allow kids in at official UFC fights don't they? So I am probably not in the majority of that line of thinking.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I don't want my kid's martial arts teacher to teach values--instilling values into my kid is my job. What I do want is self defense and exercise, period.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            There are many parents who take their kids in to learn discipline. The thing is, you can learn discipline from being on a swim team or whatever. Now, martial arts schools will take anyone, so, at least you don't have to worry about your kid not getting "cut" or playing defense all the time in soccer. All the philosophy is generally just the instructors personal beliefs, which many times he hands out as fortune cookie wisdom. If you look at TKD/Krotty as a way for a kid to burn off some his hyperactive energy it's great, but that's it.
                            "Coffee is for Closers" GlenGarry Glenross

                            Comment


                              #15
                              If you actually study philosophy enough to get a degree in it...you learn that the shit people teach in dojangs...IS AN INSULT TO ACTUAL PHILOSOPHY.

                              My sentiments exactly.



                              Originally posted by Bill Auvenshine
                              In todays UFC MMA's, the focus is on winning in a fight. Not about being polite to everyone you encounter. I believe that sort of training should be for adults only, (in fact it is isn't it?) who like a pitbull, (and I love pits) love it when they are fighting, win or lose. I see nothing wrong with that mindset. Adults are adults and if fighting is what they love I am, all for it.
                              You can find kids training hard in wrestling and boxing gyms that are focused on winning, why should any other style be different? They're there to learn the sport, not manners. Hopefully anyone that works with children would try to be a good influence on them but I don't see where it's a coach's place to teach his personal code of ethics to other people's children.




                              I do however think it is bad form to allow a UFC style fight to be held at a venue where drinking is heavy.......and kids are allowed. Keep the kiddies home, let them watch the fights with their parents. From what I have seen (two I attended were held in a bar so it was not a problem) a couple of the fights have the kids listening to cursing and bad manners (toward the skimpy dressed ladies serving beer) and underage drinking that was obvious to me but apparently not noticed by the off-duty cops hired as security.

                              If it's an 18 and up or 21 and up venue then sure, but I don't see why a kid going to watch a sport fight is any different from them going to see a football or baseball game. It's not like football fans never get drunk or use four letter words.

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