Bullshidoka Arguments

[FighterJones]

Most of these are one type or another of Logical fallacies. The straw man and possibly red herring have been mentioned already but i found a nice page http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
that lists and describes them all. I would suggest basing the list on these known flawed arguments, as many would fit in with one of the following fallacies.

Knowing all of these also just makes you better at detecting BS and calling someone out on it.

Red herring has been mentioned already, and ad hominem attack.
Straw man is a popular one here as well, ie. ground fighting on broken glass and syringes.


1. Ad Hominem
2. Ad Hominem Tu Quoque
3. Appeal to Authority
4. Appeal to Belief
5. Appeal to Common Practice
6. Appeal to Consequences of a Belief
7. Appeal to Emotion
8. Appeal to Fear
9. Appeal to Flattery
10. Appeal to Novelty
11. Appeal to Pity
12. Appeal to Popularity
13. Appeal to Ridicule
14. Appeal to Spite
15. Appeal to Tradition
16. Bandwagon
17. Begging the Question
18. Biased Sample
19. Burden of Proof
20. Circumstantial Ad Hominem
21. Composition
22. Confusing Cause and Effect
23. Division
24. False Dilemma
25. Gambler's Fallacy
26. Genetic Fallacy
27. Guilt By Association
28. Hasty Generalization
29. Ignoring A Common Cause
30. Middle Ground
31. Misleading Vividness
32. Personal Attack
33. Poisoning the Well
34. Post Hoc
35. Questionable Cause
36. Red Herring
37. Relativist Fallacy
38. Slippery Slope
39. Special Pleading
40. Spotlight
41. Straw Man
42. Two Wrongs Make A Right

I was wondering the proper attributes to help with critical thinking skills, specifically identifying logical fallacies. Thanks!

[Eddie Hardon]

"Yes, speaking of which, this is what Richard Guerra posted after being asked to e-mail a photo of his 7th dan certificate that is apparently from Japan. He offers a challenge to a 31 year old woman who asked him to confirm his 7th dan by providing some proof. He quotes, "LET HEWR STAY IN KYOKUSHIN KAI--UPON HER RETURN SHE CAN PROVE TO ME HOW GREAT SHE IS IN THE FULL CONTACT RING--WITH ME- I AM TIRED--REALLY SICK OF HER BULL SHIT" Screen shot for you:"

...which reminds of listening to Sensei Pat McCarthy tell us that Hanshi Terry Wingrove (UK) had claimed a 9th Dan from a celebrated Japanese master. Mr Wingrove had published the photo of a 'certificate' being handed to him by this well respected Japanese master (I can't remember his name). Sensei Pat told us that it was only a calendar that had been handed over....so, 'Buyer Beware' is the moral to draw....

[Michael Tzadok]

USA DD214s also shows all units served with but also shows what schools attended. Like BUDs, SFAS etc. . Time served and what years. Also reading in the unit section if you see in one unit DFR ( Dropped From Rolls means Desretion) . Grades , type of less than Honorable Discharge and Re e nlistment codes are reducted .

Israel has the same thing called a Tofess. It amazes me how many people will claim super secret IDF service. Since Israel has mandatory service and you cannot legally get a job unless you did your national service, and employers will judge your suitability for employment based on what units you served in. So most people carry a copy of their tofess in their wallet.

[Michael Tzadok]

Total Bullshido, but in defense of this technique; it does make your opponent's eyes water profusely.

I thought if you hit it hard enough it would mess up your frontal sinuses pretty bad. Not a fight stopper by any means but painful.

[MarJoe]

USA DD214s also shows all units served with but also shows what schools attended. Like BUDs, SFAS etc. . Time served and what years. Also reading in the unit section if you see in one unit DFR ( Dropped From Rolls means Desretion) . Grades , type of less than Honorable Discharge and Re e nlistment codes are reducted .

[MisoCray]

Bullshidoka Argument #19 - Unreasonable conditions for information.

This is similar to Argument #10, but instead of requesting information of the investigator this argument involves an attempt to set up a situation that discourages someone from investigating. This can include offering information under conditions that unrealistic or are reasonably deemed absurd (such as Ashida Kim demanding $10,000 before he would accept a challenge match) to conditions that are dangerous or illegal. For example, the subject of an investigation agrees to meet for an interview, but only if you come to his dojo by yourself in the wee hours of the morning.

Counter - If the subject isn't willing to compromise enough to provide information in a safe manner (such as an interview in a neutral location or in the presence of a witness), then make a note and explanation - "The subject made Bullshidoka Argument #19; he was unwilling to provide this information unless we first fought with swords to first blood, an obviously unsafe practice."

Yes, speaking of which, this is what Richard Guerra posted after being asked to e-mail a photo of his 7th dan certificate that is apparently from Japan. He offers a challenge to a 31 year old woman who asked him to confirm his 7th dan by providing some proof. He quotes, "LET HEWR STAY IN KYOKUSHIN KAI--UPON HER RETURN SHE CAN PROVE TO ME HOW GREAT SHE IS IN THE FULL CONTACT RING--WITH ME- I AM TIRED--REALLY SICK OF HER BULL SHIT" Screen shot for you:

[IMG][/IMG]

Now, tell me if this stimulates suspicion or not.

[JohnKenner]

Has anyone heard of adolfo ennever president of the american federation of martial arts? I found a lot of his claims to be fraudulent and even heard the Grand masters he claimed taught him did not. A lot of people are being scammed by this man and fraudulently promoted.

Dude, this post will get you in all sorts of hot water.

First off, Its in a completely unrelated thread. Secondly, you need to provide proof of everything you say (and not in the form of hearsay - "I heard from so and so that he didn't teach him").

So, if you're going to do this right:

(1) Read all of the stickies in this forum. Learn what this forum is for, and the standards it requires.
(2) Gather a list of the claims this guy makes (preferably from a place where we know *he* made the claims.
(3) Gather evidence in the form of affidavits, clips from reputable news agencies, interviews, reports from the better business bureau, interviews, etc...
(4) And most importantly, document how you crossed paths with this gentleman? Do you have any reason for bias? Any business dealings, competition? Were you a student in the past? What made you think he was a fraud?

After you have done this, start a new thread on this forum, titled appropriately (like the gentleman's name and school), and post all of the gathered information.

This will earn you a modicum of respect and appreciation for following the forum rules. You will have to do a lot of legwork if you want to post seriously in this forum. That's the cost if you want to lodge an allegation of fraud against someone.

In the mean time, Admins, can his post and mine be culled and sent off to Trollshido?

[slamdunc]

Palm-strike-the-nose-bone-into-the-brain is bullshido.

Total Bullshido, but in defense of this technique; it does make your opponent's eyes water profusely.

[Weekly]

Just wondering if anyone knew about a big Mcdojo, competing in a Japanese Goju tournament currently and not under their Mcdojo banner from Australia led by the 2nd in charge.
they have wanted to be recognised by a JKA FEDERATION for a long time but have to make big changes from their own style to do so.
OK so from someone who was told not to cross train within another, thats bullshit from my perspective (9 yrs in this club).
i'm pissed and changing to an allready affiliated club, not one that was started in a garage 30 years ago by karate bob.( worked it out yet??) go kan ???
I have enjoyed the students and the other people , the time and effort they put in .
but dissheartend by the management and those the head the club.
phew!!

[Ke?poFist]

Dammit. I was just typing up a thread like this, and then double-checked to make sure it wasn't already done. Nice

[Permalost]

I'm very interested in starting a discussion on questionable business/promo practices by MMA schools. I'm a student at a BJJ school, but work online and do marketing (also have a BA in journalism and worked in the field... until it truly pissed me off). I've seen gyms posting fake reviews of themselves, hiring content farms, etc... then using high pressure to get students to sign up.
Any thoughts as to whether or not this would be a worthy topic?
Cheers

It's worth pointing out the differences between bullshido, and Mcdojo. Bullshido is bullshit martial arts. Palm-strike-the-nose-bone-into-the-brain is bullshido. It does not necessarily mean that anyone's raking in any money with their material. A mcdojo is a school that is profit oriented. It may or may not include bullshido; some mcdojos teach good techniques and have good training; many do not because a large number of people want to train and feel like good fighters without putting in hard work and being subjected to pain and injury.

[webmindset]

I'm very interested in starting a discussion on questionable business/promo practices by MMA schools. I'm a student at a BJJ school, but work online and do marketing (also have a BA in journalism and worked in the field... until it truly pissed me off). I've seen gyms posting fake reviews of themselves, hiring content farms, etc... then using high pressure to get students to sign up.
Any thoughts as to whether or not this would be a worthy topic?
Cheers

[ChenPengFi]

I get a blank white page...

[Arskanator]

Please note that the contents of this thread have now been added to .org as a single document here:

http://www.bullshido.org/Bullshidoka_Arguments

This enables the individual arguments and their counters to be linked into discussion threads

Is it just me or does the link not work anymore?

[It is Fake]

Bullshidoka argument #32:
You cannot find helpful information on the internet. The internet is a poor medium as it is full of lies.

This is from a bygone era when this was true. It was even partially true when I fist joined. Nearly six years later and the internet is a great research TOOL.

Point out that during investigations that the internet isn't the only tool used. Also, point out that with newspaper articles, court documents, IP searches, and email, that the internet is a valuable tool. It is one of many ways used to verify credentials, exonerate a person or prove someone fraudulent.


Bullshidoka Argument #33: The good guy or I respect what he has done for me, the community or both argument.

This comes up constantly and examples include people that teach the poor to people that serve or have served in the military.

Point out that it is a good thing that this person helped, served, volunteered, taught for no profit or works with the community. Yet, it doesn't excuse questionable behavior like fraud, fake credentials, lying, or any other justification.