Aiki-bujitsu

[Spork]

Before I ask my question:

I know the English translation of "aiki-bujitsu."

I know the historical lineage of the term as it relates to aikido, etc.

I did a search on Bullshido for this topic and nothing popped up.

My question: is aiki-bujitsu, as it is taught in the USA, just a sportified mish-mash of techniques that are supposedly from a variety of Japanese-Okinawan martial arts? I attended an aiki-bujitsu class recently, and was surprised at the lack of formality that I am used to seeing in other (non-tournament-oriented) Japanese martial arts. I saw students wandering in and out, students practicing a movement a few times then morphing it into something else when they got bored, etc. Class that day consisted of an aikido turning technique, a front kick, and some punching that was more boxing related than anything else. Maybe I've just been spoiled by past experience . . .

[datdamnmachine]

Maybe the students where bored because what was being taught was "boring". I see formality as a downside to martial arts training. The first place I started training at was so formal, I was more worried about being respectful to "Sifu" then learning how to fight. My opinion is that the time spend bowing to whoever master created your martial art could be better spent sparring. Keep in mind that it's not a manditory that a school teaching Japanese martial arts be anally formal. It just seems that most of them are.

Considering that boxing has yet to find an equal in punching techniques, it's probably a good thing they where learning boxing instead of the who karate chaimber your fist at your waist thing.

Then again, if the point of "aiki-bujitsu" is to preserve the techniques of the past regardless of effectiveness then they may be doing a bad job of it. If you are trying to indicate that this school is bullshido or not, you may want to provide more information such as a website, location, etc so memebers can look into.

[plasma]

Before I ask my question:

I know the English translation of "aiki-bujitsu."

I know the historical lineage of the term as it relates to aikido, etc.

I did a search on Bullshido for this topic and nothing popped up.

My question: is aiki-bujitsu, as it is taught in the USA, just a sportified mish-mash of techniques that are supposedly from a variety of Japanese-Okinawan martial arts? I attended an aiki-bujitsu class recently, and was surprised at the lack of formality that I am used to seeing in other (non-tournament-oriented) Japanese martial arts. I saw students wandering in and out, students practicing a movement a few times then morphing it into something else when they got bored, etc. Class that day consisted of an aikido turning technique, a front kick, and some punching that was more boxing related than anything else. Maybe I've just been spoiled by past experience . . .

I'd be warry of anything that calls its aikibujitsu and has no relation to Ueshiba lienage wise.

[Spork]

I'd be warry of anything that calls its aikibujitsu and has no relation to Ueshiba lienage wise.

That's something that I would like to find out -- whether aiki-bujitsu in the USA has any real connection to Ueshiba. Internet searching has yielded no aiki-bujitsu websites (which could be a good thing).

[plasma]

Well. Ueshiba held Shoden Menkyo in Diato Ryu Aikijujutsu, later on he circularized his art and called it Aikibudo, which eventally was trimed to Aikido.

Aikibujutsu sounds like a Gaijin Ryu Name for a "best of all styles art"

[Spork]

Maybe the students where bored because what was being taught was "boring". I see formality as a downside to martial arts training.

Uh, in a class of beginners I don't think it's very productive for students to wander around doing their own thing. The students aren't going to learn anything, except maybe how to satisfy their short attention spans.

[Spork]

Well. Ueshiba held Shoden Menkyo in Diato Ryu Aikijujutsu, later on he circularized his art and called it Aikibudo, which eventally was trimed to Aikido.

Aikibujutsu sounds like a Gaijin Ryu Name for a "best of all styles art"

Again, I am trying to find out if aiki-bujitsu, as taught in the USA, has any real connection to Ueshiba.

The spelling used by the group I trained with: aiki-bujitsu, not aiki-bujutsu.

BTW, the gi color used was black, not white. Better than fire engine red or lime green, I suppose.

[GoldenJonas]

I may get, and would expect to get, the MA History Fu smackdown from the more knowledgeable around here, but...I have read that pre-Kano had a division in the Jiu-jitsu, jujutsu, whatever, in Japan. Essential the two dominant styles were Aiki-jujutsu and Taji-jujutsu (I'm probably killing the second one).

The Aiki style was taught to the upper class in the feudal society (I believe it was actually passed down from some Prince) while the second style was considered to be thuggish and more a fighting style of the poorer elements of society. The comparison of techniques from the two styles arguably shows the feudal pattern in that Aikijujutsu and is modern day incarnation, Aikido, is more beautiful to look at than an ogoshi followed by a jujigatame. Hence, rich=beatifull (Aikijujutsu/Ueshiba/Aikido) and poor=harsh (Tajijujutsu/Kano/Judo/Jiu-jitsu).

Ueshiba developed modern day Aikido which I think is and offshoot of Aikijujutsu. Thus, Aiki-jiujitsu would predate Ueshiba.

Right?

[FictionPimp]

To think that it would be possible to keep effective combat techniques out of the hands of people who had to fight for the lives is silly. I would think there would be a mixing of styles between the classes. If only for those who actually had to deal with battle.

[GoldenJonas]

Hey don't shoot the messanger, I agree.

But who said Aikido was "effective"?

ZING................................

[datdamnmachine]

Uh, in a class of beginners I don't think it's very productive for students to wander around doing their own thing. The students aren't going to learn anything, except maybe how to satisfy their short attention spans.

True actually. However here is an example. In my kickboxing class when we at hitting the pads working on the techniques I'm not bored. I'm working out, sweating, going hard. Sometimes we would stop and the instructor would show us some standing control techniques(he is in juvenile corrections) and I would cool down, get bored, stop paying attention, mind wanders off. Nothing he or anyone else can do about it, save maybe him finding a better way of approaching the teaching of those techniques. Hince being bored. Just because one way of teaching works for the majority, doesn't mean it works for the minority.

To think that it would be possible to keep effective combat techniques out of the hands of people who had to fight for the lives is silly. I would think there would be a mixing of styles between the classes. If only for those who actually had to deal with battle.

That's usually how it goes when you deal with a "class" system. Regardless of where you're from there is some sort of class system, spoken or unspoken and usually, the lower ones on that scale get screwed out of the things that would be most benificial to them. This includes the martial arts as well. Kinda like being dirt broke and you want to do BJJ but the only place in town is that really expensive Gracie school that charges 500 bucks a month.

[Spork]

already repeating myself

I don't care which social class aiki-whatever was taught to in late 19th century Japan, what I'm trying to find out is whether aiki-jujitsu IN THE USA is something that once had or still has a relationship to a more traditional Japanese martial art in Japan. By "more traditional" I mean some sort of quality control in instruction, no tournaments or trophies, etc. I was informed at the class I went to that IN THE USA aiki-jujitsu -- or at least the version this group is connected with -- holds tournament competitions.

[Pink_Freud]

Did you try the aikijujutsu and/or aikido forums at e-budo dot com?

[Japan Junkie]

I am surprised at how even the most traditional martial arts seem to have tournaments. I've even heard that hapkido schools have tournaments. http://www.pro-hapkido.com/ Look at this; even aikido has tournaments. http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=243

I wonder if Tai Chi has tournaments. Heck, I just looked and found this on the web. Incredible--I never thought that even the most non-sportive arts have tournaments. http://www.taichiyouth.org/Pages-Y/aboutTCY001Y.html

I guess it's just the competitive nature of man, so there is basically a tournament for just about everything, even aiki-bujitsu

[Spork]

more info

I found a single website for someting called "satori ryu aiki bujitsu" (flash of enlightenment school of harmonious martial techniques? -- obviously an American put that name together). The website (http://www.satoriaikibujitsu.com/lineage.asp) seems to indicate the style was started by someone named Eric Akridge, who was a student of someone named John Miller. These two people supposedly studied everything from tai chi to kuk sul won to "koga ryu ninjitsu." Whether the group I discovered is connected to this style, I don't know.

I trained with the aiki-bujitsu group again and people were doing some standard Japanese karate katas. The instructor also made some references to "yoshinkan aikido" during other exercises.