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Martial arts is focusing too much on athlectic ability now a days

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    Martial arts is focusing too much on athlectic ability now a days

    before that it was tha mystical crap. but im noticing alot more of the athletic stuff now a days especially in mma.

    i think its a problem because they are empasing it over technique and pure skill at my kick boxing gym. i actually hear stuff like oh i can kick so so butt because he only bench 210 even though the guy they were talking about has been training way longer.

    bob sapp is a perfect exapmle of this thpugh im not sure on his training history.

    but my question is if you cant beat some one with more speed and power but less skill on the streets. then why are you practicng martial arts for self defense or mma sport if that the mentality we are going by. i mean what if you run into someone the size of warren sapp you go to your school 3-5 times a week just to surrender.

    and i notice this in bjj muay thai and mma gyms and not neccarily TMA schools
    Last edited by lazyartist101; 7/27/2006 9:07pm, .

    #2
    While good technique should always be aspired to, size, strenghth, and athletic ability should never be discounted.

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      #3
      I would disagree as the jujitsu and kickboxing I'm taught focuses a lot on technique.

      I'm not sure what your question is as it was phrased rather awkwardly, but I'm assuming that you're asking why take martial arts if the same things can be accomplished with athleticism. Am I correct?

      Well in truth the same things cannot be accomplished by brute strength and athleticism. For instance, one of the coaches at Mass BJJ in Acton, MA is hardly a studly bodybuilder-esque specimen (no offense meant towards him) but he manages to sub and outgrapple people much larger and presumably stronger than him.

      People like Bob Sapp are an exception because they're simply SO much stronger than everyone they're competing against. Yet even at that level of brute strength technique matters. Bob Sapp's technique is heavily flawed as many people point out and as a result he's lost fights to many people much smaller than him. (See Sapp vs Rodrigo Noguiera)

      I would say practicing technique in an alive resisting environment is the best bet in learning how to fight competitively or defend oneself.

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        #4
        i was kind of saying that my point is you are going to lse to someone more athletic or you think you will why are you taking martial arts. i mean if i take lets say muay thai for 2 years ,but still think i would get killed by someone the size of say bob sapp with no fighting experience whats the point of taking martial arts

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          #5
          Bob Sapp is an exception because he's 350 lbs of muscle and trained in some level of kickboxing/boxing. Most people AS athletic and strong as him probably couldn't take him.

          I take martial arts because my training lets me deal with a LOT of people stronger and more athletic than me. Of course there's a limit, but technique is very important in winning a fight. At 135lbs I got a standard jujitsu guillotine choke from guard on a 205lb friend of mine. Would that have been possible without martial arts? No.

          I consider strength/athleticism to be important as well. That's why I lift weights, do heavy conditioning, and train in martial arts.

          I hope that helps.

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            #6
            Look at it this way, sure Bob Sapp wins from time to time because he's a massive steroid abusing freak. But imagine how unstoppable he would be if he had real skill, lets say a Black Belt in BJJ or something, I shudder at the thought.

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              #7
              I love it when meatheads come into the gym. They are so big and strong and studly. They gurgle beautifully when choked.
              And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

              --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.

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                #8
                you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. i blame aikido for this, its poisoning your mind and making you stupid. this discussion has been done a million times- skill, strength, speed, endurance, all these things play a part in your overall ability. neglect one and it will hinder you. focus too much on one and it will also be to your detriment as the other qualities fall behind (yeah i know there are more than that but im keeping it simple). you use Sapp as an example but Sapp is a freak, thats like saying why dont people adopt a southpaw stance and learn to headkick because cro cop does it.

                size is always a factor in fights. life is not a video game where the super fast bruce lee clone can easily beat the big slow plodding sumo wrestler. this is the way things are.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by lazyartist101
                  i was kind of saying that my point is you are going to lse to someone more athletic or you think you will why are you taking martial arts. i mean if i take lets say muay thai for 2 years ,but still think i would get killed by someone the size of say bob sapp with no fighting experience whats the point of taking martial arts
                  I'd say that increasing your chances from none to slim is a pretty substantial improvement.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by lazyartist101
                    i mean if i take lets say muay thai for 2 years ,but still think i would get killed by someone the size of say bob sapp with no fighting experience whats the point of taking martial arts
                    Uhh, because 99.9% of the population is not Bob Sapp.

                    I'll take those odds.
                    Shut the hell up and train.

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                      #11
                      The average skill of competitors in MMA has vastly improved over the last decade. It's no longer a rare phenomenon to find a fighter who can both strike and grapple well. In fact, it's expected. The bar has been raised. So what then, seperates the best from the average? Well, maybe it is getting to the point where the thing seperating many of the top level competitors is conditioning as much as skill. Certainly this type of mentality will filter down to us mere mortals right? Doesn't really seem like a bad thing to me... people generally live longer and healthier lives if they keep themselves in top shape.

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                        #12
                        It's a physical activity- you may have exceptional coordination, like a Joe Montana, or have to strong, fast and atheletic. It's no different then any other athletic event. And, yes, there are wight divisions. The sad reality is, if you give way to much size anbd strength, and you're not BJ Penn, or one of those little Thai Boxers that kcik the crap out of the giant K-1 kcikboxers, the law of physcis and nature may just get you. It never hurts to be in seriously good shape. Helps with alot of other things. And, if you aren't blessed with alot of skills, being strong and fit can help you.
                        "Coffee is for Closers" GlenGarry Glenross

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                          #13
                          When was it not necessary to be atheletic to be a compotent fighter or "martial artist"?

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                            #14
                            it was not necessary when martial artists didn't fight.

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                              #15


                              Kimura says "Fucking nubs"

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