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Can Judoka promote BJJ practitioners?

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    Can Judoka promote BJJ practitioners?

    So I was researching BJJ gyms in the Cleveland area. I came across Adventure MMA. They have Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu classes, competitors, etc. It's very hard to find information on the instructor. Through research I found comments about him being a black belt under Santos Flaniken / Gene Lebell. To my knowledge, Santos and Gene are Judo Black Belts, not BJJ black belts. So how is it that a Judo BB can promote people to BJJ black belts? Am I missing something? The guy has shown what seems to be pretty legit technique videos on his facebook, and pictures with Gokor Chivichyan who apparently back him up... but the belt promotion would, in my opinion, make him a Judo BB who is somehow getting away with teaching BJJ? Anybody have any input?

    https://www.adventuremma.com/bjj/

    #2
    Originally posted by bluelinegrapple View Post
    So I was researching BJJ gyms in the Cleveland area. I came across Adventure MMA. They have Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu classes, competitors, etc. It's very hard to find information on the instructor. Through research I found comments about him being a black belt under Santos Flaniken / Gene Lebell. To my knowledge, Santos and Gene are Judo Black Belts, not BJJ black belts. So how is it that a Judo BB can promote people to BJJ black belts? Am I missing something? The guy has shown what seems to be pretty legit technique videos on his facebook, and pictures with Gokor Chivichyan who apparently back him up... but the belt promotion would, in my opinion, make him a Judo BB who is somehow getting away with teaching BJJ? Anybody have any input?

    https://www.adventuremma.com/bjj/
    I'm gonna go out on a limb and say hard no, otherwise it would bastardize both ranking systems and create a clear false equivalence of skill level. But ultimately this is just a technicality nowadays, the lines have blurred a bit (which I think is natural for any martial art that grows beyond a few generations when mixing occurs).

    I could not find any evidence of authentic BJJ ranking for Stronsick, but did find black belts in other things like Krav Maga. And we know black belts in some arts sometimes like to cloud the waters about technicalities.

    One of his purple belt coaches (Tamara) is also a bb in kenpo karate and brown in Krav, and a Hayastan alum, so I'm sure she can roll quite well.

    End of the day (and others here can speak to this phenom better than I), there is no law against teaching BJJ without having a formal rank. These are really MMA schools that cross train in a lot so these ranks prob aren't meant to represent GJJ/BJJ ranks, but a school based rank system that would still be recognized elsewhere as mostly legit. Tamara for instance would probably rank up pretty fast in a legit BJJ gym, because she can (and by the evidence has) defended and competed at that level of skill.
    Last edited by W. Rabbit; 10/11/2020 11:08am, .
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    My Glossary: https://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=129294

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      #3
      Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post

      I'm gonna go out on a limb and say hard no, otherwise it would bastardize both ranking systems and create a clear false equivalence of skill level. But ultimately this is just a technicality nowadays, the lines have blurred a bit (which I think is natural for any martial art that grows beyond a few generations when mixing occurs).

      I could not find any evidence of authentic BJJ ranking for Stronsick, but did find black belts in other things like Krav Maga. And we know black belts in some arts sometimes like to cloud the waters about technicalities.

      One of his purple belt coaches (Tamara) is also a bb in kenpo karate and brown in Krav, and a Hayastan alum, so I'm sure she can roll quite well.

      End of the day (and others here can speak to this phenom better than I), there is no law against teaching BJJ without having a formal rank. These are really MMA schools that cross train in a lot so these ranks prob aren't meant to represent GJJ/BJJ ranks, but a school based rank system that would still be recognized elsewhere as mostly legit. Tamara for instance would probably rank up pretty fast in a legit BJJ gym, because she can (and by the evidence has) defended and competed at that level of skill.
      Thanks for the reply, I truly appreciate it. I have no doubt whatsoever as to their skill level, considering legitimate grapplers are backing them up. I just really didn’t understand how he’s marketing his classes as BRAZILIAN Jiujitsu classes when he hasn’t received any belts in actual BJJ... so he’s using the term BJJ as a marketing ploy to draw in students because, well, it’s highly doubted most people know what Hayastan is... so it’s easier to call it what it looks like to the average person (BJJ). Almost like how in the U.S. people throw things together and call it “Krav Maga” when in reality it’s something different.

      Something about it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, though. Maybe it’s OCD, I just don’t think you should call yourself a BJJ black belt when you haven’t been graded in it yourself... just because you grapple and train in a legit system, doesn’t mean you’re doing BJJ. That’s why they call Sambo, BJJ, Judo, wrestling, etc different things. Different philosophies and ideologies.

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        #4
        Originally posted by bluelinegrapple View Post

        Thanks for the reply, I truly appreciate it. I have no doubt whatsoever as to their skill level, considering legitimate grapplers are backing them up. I just really didn’t understand how he’s marketing his classes as BRAZILIAN Jiujitsu classes when he hasn’t received any belts in actual BJJ... so he’s using the term BJJ as a marketing ploy to draw in students because, well, it’s highly doubted most people know what Hayastan is... so it’s easier to call it what it looks like to the average person (BJJ). Almost like how in the U.S. people throw things together and call it “Krav Maga” when in reality it’s something different.

        Something about it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, though. Maybe it’s OCD, I just don’t think you should call yourself a BJJ black belt when you haven’t been graded in it yourself... just because you grapple and train in a legit system, doesn’t mean you’re doing BJJ. That’s why they call Sambo, BJJ, Judo, wrestling, etc different things. Different philosophies and ideologies.
        BJJ blackbelts are often given out to high level grapplers that do not train in BJJ.

        Josh Barnet a notable one and I think even Bullshidos own Omega (SAMBO practitioner) received his under similar circumstances.

        Some like Neil Mellanson named their own system of grappling at one point and awarded Randy Couture a black belt in that system IIRC he was head grappling coach at extreme cotoure at the time.

        If the guy is a legit high level grappler under Gokor and Lebell and simply decided to compete with local BJJ gyms by teaching BJJ too without any rubber stamp from any of the BJJ cults cough I mean orgs then well I am not saying its right but I understand .

        Have you ask him anything about his qualifications?


        King without a crown

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          #5
          Is he for real promoting people in BJJ? As said, sometimes high level grapplers are awarded accolades in BJJ, and in MMA clubs instructors might blur those lines a bit to build up what they bring to the table, but at least I couldn't see from what I skimmed through, him actually promoting people. Some clubs bring in someone ranked to do this. I'm not big on someone tying a belt around someone's waist that they don't know, but it happens.

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            #6
            I would say no as well. It is sketchy, even if they do have some high level grappling skills.

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              #7
              Originally posted by PDA View Post

              BJJ blackbelts are often given out to high level grapplers that do not train in BJJ.

              Josh Barnet a notable one and I think even Bullshidos own Omega (SAMBO practitioner) received his under similar circumstances.

              Some like Neil Mellanson named their own system of grappling at one point and awarded Randy Couture a black belt in that system IIRC he was head grappling coach at extreme cotoure at the time.

              If the guy is a legit high level grappler under Gokor and Lebell and simply decided to compete with local BJJ gyms by teaching BJJ too without any rubber stamp from any of the BJJ cults cough I mean orgs then well I am not saying its right but I understand .

              Have you ask him anything about his qualifications?

              Yeah. Also, all of the names you just mentioned are incredible grapplers with more talent than many will ever have. Gene Lebell's name alone makes my joints hurt.
              "Pave the way for the little guy, Caligula!" Harry Solomon, September 28, 1999

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                #8
                No they cannot, not in the UK anyway, that is mental.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Ulsteryank View Post
                  Is he for real promoting people in BJJ? As said, sometimes high level grapplers are awarded accolades in BJJ, and in MMA clubs instructors might blur those lines a bit to build up what they bring to the table, but at least I couldn't see from what I skimmed through, him actually promoting people. Some clubs bring in someone ranked to do this. I'm not big on someone tying a belt around someone's waist that they don't know, but it happens.
                  Yes he has promoted a girl named Tamara Leonard. No doubt a great grappler having won multiple IBJJF tournaments... but to call yourself a Santos Flaniken Black Belt and promoting people in BJJ makes no sense because Flaniken can’t award BJJ belts himself. Despite the legendary grappling skills he has. Just like Rickson Gracie can’t promote someone to Black Belt in Sambo.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by bluelinegrapple View Post

                    Yes he has promoted a girl named Tamara Leonard. No doubt a great grappler having won multiple IBJJF tournaments... but to call yourself a Santos Flaniken Black Belt and promoting people in BJJ makes no sense because Flaniken can’t award BJJ belts himself. Despite the legendary grappling skills he has. Just like Rickson Gracie can’t promote someone to Black Belt in Sambo.
                    So she should be winning IBJJF competitions as a white belt?

                    Be pretty embarrassing for everyone else.

                    Anyway Inoue has kind of the same issue.

                    https://www.bjjee.com/articles/ibjjf...jj-black-belt/

                    Last edited by gregaquaman; 11/10/2020 3:44pm, .
                    Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
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