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    What is the best foundation art?

    "The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my notions have only wasted my time."

    -- George Bernard Shaw

    #2
    I tend to disagree, while there may be some positives to a TMA, the negatives tend to outweigh them. If you had to accelerate your skills immediately and realistically, I'd either pick a MMA or "reality-based" system. Then if you had time to waste afterwards, then settle with a TMA.
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

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      #3
      Sanshou. Well rounded with kickboxing and efficient takedowns, you can complement its weaknesses with a harder hitting style that you can adapt to real-time use or a style that follows the action through on the ground.
      "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."

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        #4
        I'd have to go with Krav Maga. It's easy to learn, very effective, and, similarily to the JKD philosophy, you can adapt other arts to the basics of Krav Maga, or you can perfect the art itself.

        "Everybody knows...if the police have to chase you down, they're brining an ass kicking with them". - Chris Rock
        "Onward we stagger, and if the tanks come, may God help the tanks." - Col. William O. Darby

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          #5
          Boxing.

          No bollocksy philosophy, just getting in a ring and hitting the other guy.
          Teaches how to punch and how to use footwork and body movement to best advantage.

          You can then learn all the grappling/kicking skills on top of that.
          Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989

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            #6
            MMA. Definitely. Some may not consider it a style, but... It has everything you'll ever need for unarmed combat. And of course, the foundation for MMA is grappling.

            Also it's great for self defense/real fighting and also has many sport/competition opportunities.

            Regards,
            Matt

            "My cat's name is Mittens."
            Ralph Wiggum

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              #7
              Boxing for a "spots fighting career". If you are going to get paid for being punched around. You may as well be getting paid alot.

              I believe boxing matches still provide the biggest money pot. providing you are good, of course.

              Self defence: I'd agree with SH, boxing again is a good choice. Although I'd prefer MT, as it includes more striking weapons (elbows, legs, kness, etc), then you just add wrestling and your good to go.

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                #8
                Jiu Jitsu is actually surprisingly all-round, when taught properly.

                I think that any MA will provide you with a good basis, even though it's because of conditioning and technique training. They all more or less teach you the same thing, save for the fact that the SCHOOL itself may place a different emphasis.

                Figure out for yourself what your advantage is and then select a MA that you like. If you're tall, go for TKD or MT. If you're shorter, but stocky and quick, go for JJ. If you're short, go for WC, Pencak Silat or Hung Gar/Mantis Kung Fu.

                Simps

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                  #9
                  Simps is correct.

                  [Das Moose]

                  Chum Sut Total Fighting - www.chumsut.com

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                    #10
                    Having studied a striking only art and now taking BJJ, I gotta say that grappling is far superior as a base art than striking based arts. Grapping utilizes large body movements and generally slows a fight down. This makes it much easier to use in real confrontations where you might be nervous, scared, pumped up with adrenalin and/or all the other things that destroy your fine motor control (and your memory of techniques too).

                    I think someone else already said in another thread that grappling arts (and MMA) leave more room for error. That's true. Add to that how most grappling arts are trained, with lots of alive training, resistance and "sparring", and combine it with the fact that grappling is very good at stifling strikes, and you have an incredibly effective and easy to use fighting system.

                    I think you folks that have listed striking arts as good base arts and then said to "add in some grappling" have it backwards. You should start with grappling (for all the above reasons) and then add in some striking. It is effective right from the start of your training. And it maintains effectiveness the longer you train and the better you get.

                    Regards,
                    Matt

                    "My cat's name is Mittens."
                    Ralph Wiggum

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                      #11
                      Matt W. You just started BJJ so you are still in the fanboy stage.

                      What's a good base art? Thats a tough question. It depends. How long do you plan on training? What are your goals for training? What size are you? etc. the list goes on and on.

                      For the most part though, I don't think the base art matters. Whatever it is, it will have holes. Your further training should be geared towards filling those holes. If you do this, then no matter what art you start with, the finished product will be a well rounded fighter.

                      ---------
                      Shut up and train

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                        #12
                        I have to agree with Fisting Kittens here.

                        Also, Grappling has excellent uses, but for a base "self defense art", I would choose something that has more options.

                        Anyone who swears by grappling as a "base-art" for self defense has never been in a bar fight, or been in a fight with multiple people.

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                          #13
                          First thing I started with was with Judo .. then Wushu and Praying Mantis. Now I do TKD, Pencak Silat and Jiu Jitsu.

                          What I said wasn't that you should pick a striking art over grappling art, I said that you should choose something that fits the physical advantage that you have. Not much use to start MT when you're 5'1".

                          You know, there's more to striking arts then just whooping ass. They teach you good body positiong and rigorious conditioning as well. And as far as the whole grappling vs. striking debate, it blows. They're both means to an end.

                          When I use some TKD kicks at Jiu Jitsu, I usually nail people with it. They don't expect it and the fact that I'm usually taller and JJ isn't really a long range art, means that I have the advantage. Should I close in however, the odds go from 80/20 to 50/50 to 20/80. So in other words, if I compromise my physical advantage, my odds go down. However, if I utilize it, I have the advantage.

                          So what's wrong with recommending an art to someone, that utilizes his physical advantage, as a base art? Something you can rely on? That art can be either grappling or striking or both. I listed both striking and grappling arts, as well as Pencak Silat, which is a whole different ballgame.

                          --- "I think you folks that have listed striking arts as good base arts and then said to "add in some grappling" have it backwards. You should start with grappling (for all the above reasons) and then add in some striking. It is effective right from the start of your training. And it maintains effectiveness the longer you train and the better you get." ---

                          Really? And the fact that the longer you train at it, the better you become at it doesn't go for striking? I suggest that you go to a boxing gym and say that to a boxer's face. They can teach you thing or two about striking. Or your local MT school.

                          ---"I think someone else already said in another thread that grappling arts (and MMA) leave more room for error. That's true. Add to that how most grappling arts are trained, with lots of alive training, resistance and "sparring", and combine it with the fact that grappling is very good at stifling strikes, and you have an incredibly effective and easy to use fighting system."---

                          Right ... you left out one thing. You have to be good at it. As far as live training goes, do you think that all that striking practice is about, is hitting focus pads or work on the speedbag? Of course we spar. Full contact even if you want. Resistance? Nothing like getting your ass kicked if you leave a hole in your guard.

                          ---"Having studied a striking only art and now taking BJJ, I gotta say that grappling is far superior as a base art than striking based arts. Grapping utilizes large body movements and generally slows a fight down. This makes it much easier to use in real confrontations where you might be nervous, scared, pumped up with adrenalin and/or all the other things that destroy your fine motor control (and your memory of techniques too). "---

                          Are you on crack? Do you not see that you just killed your own statement with that last line? (your memory of techniques)

                          If anything, I would say that punching someone is far more natural than executing a complex grappling move. That's where the training part kicks in. And here it comes, you will suck at a MA if you don't train properly and put a lot of effort into it. Grappling or Striking.

                          Enough of this BS ... you pick what you like and suits your physical attributes and work from there.

                          Simps

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                            #14
                            krav is my base art but i also do BJJ and am starting escrima on tues....then get my FID card and i'll be all set...

                            grappling does not make sense for se;f-defense base...you want to hit and run, not try to tie up your attacker

                            ________________________________________________
                            Objects in life are closer than they appear

                            To each according to his need, from each according to his ability...of course, you'll probably have to beat it out of him
                            There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.

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                              #15
                              Oh my goodness. I guess we're just going to start busting out all the old cliche's about grappling.

                              FK, perhaps I am in the fanboy stage. I gotta admit BJJ has opened my eyes. And I've been left feeling like my one month of BJJ has done more for my actual fighting ability than all my MA study before that combined. But okay, I'm sure that makes me a fanboy. Given.

                              So now that we've got that out of the way, how about you try actually responding to the points I made? If you're actually interested at all, of course.

                              And AMP, how do striking arts have "more options" than BJJ or grappling?

                              Regards,
                              Matt

                              "My cat's name is Mittens."
                              Ralph Wiggum

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