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    Be nice?

    Recently we have had quite a few new students coming to train at our club. Most of the new people come from a Wing chun/tsun(i'm not sure how they differ) background. We also had a couple of Karate guys come in for a few lessons.

    Everyone is always friendly and we all have a great deal of respect for one another. There isn't an attitude problem and people from other styles are welcome, especially since almost everyone in the class is a "mixed M.artist". Obviously there is some bias towards certain styles being uneffective but none of that is openly expressed and we allow everyone equal opportunity to prove their stuff works.

    Which brings me to my question concerning sparring. The basic rule is we can do "anything with control". Placing the tumb on the forehead/eyebrow to simulate an eye gouge, kicking above or just below the knee to simulate a leg devestation. If the person is wearing a box we can strike to the groin, if not its general concensus that we don't damage each others "goods". <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

    Particularly devastating attacks, like arm breaks, knees to the face are usually suppressed at the last moment to avoid contact.

    Anyway once the general rules are laid down we spar. Every one must wear gloves, any further protection like a box, gum shield, head guard, etc is up to the individual. getting to the point, How aggressive do you go on a new student?

    Do you work around with foot work waiting to see what they've got and let them set the speed? or should you mark your territory by giving them as good a beating as you can?

    I don't know if I'm explaining this well. I'll give an example, we have one guy who throws punches very lightly and almost always pulls them before contact, I normally smack him up to encourage him to be more aggressive in return. One of our senior students has a punch that almost always rocks you when it connects(and it connects often) with him I generally work on footwork and choose the shots I throw very carefully because every window I open in my guard is an opportunity for him to smash my face in. So the speed and aggression level, how hard I punch, etc is pushed up and down considering who I'm sparring.

    The problem comes when you have new people, you don't know how much pressure or how fast they are willing to go. At the same time you don't want to look like a complete [email protected] and just smack them up.

    Treat everyone the same and go in all guns blazing or...be nice? <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

    Being nice can be interpretted in different ways, I guess going easy on someone and letting them think they are shit hot, isn't really doing them any favours.

    Opinions?

    #2
    Good question, my Vale Tudo instructor always says to help the new person learn by owning them. It's not about marking your territory, but if you go at it half arsed and they land a strike or something, they will think that they've done well. They need to know where they stand so don't hold back.
    After you've beaten them you can then chat with them and show them where they've gone wrong. You don't want to give them illusions about their effectiveness though.

    Comment


      #3
      Nobody will ever fault you for being consistent. However, if you simply devastate a new student with your superior skill, you'll likely destroy a few peoples' esteem and lose them as members. Nobody likes to be embarassed, people like to be taught or challenged.

      Personally I try to fight at a level just above theirs, to keep them coming back for more, but so that they realize they've still been owned. Besides, most new people realize that they're not as good as members who have been there longer.

      Of course, if they're shooting their mouths, then fuck'em up and mock them. If they can't take it, they shouldn't dish it.

      Regards,
      CrimsonTiger

      "Wake me up.
      Bid my blood to run.
      I can't wake up.
      Before I come undone.
      Save me.
      Save me from the nothing I've become." -Evanescence, Bring Me To Life
      Regards,
      CrimsonTiger

      "Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
      One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
      Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine

      Comment


        #4
        I agree with MMA Phil (sacrilege!)

        "Treat everyone the same and go in all guns blazing or...be nice?"
        :)



        I would start off slow with a newer person, come in with an exchange and see how that goes, then step it up from there. Later on in the sparring practice match you can turn it up (controlled!) and show them that them have quite a ways to go before they are any good. Then after you've destroyed them emphasis you got that good due to patience, hard work and dedication. Be a mentor, encourage them and be someone they can look up to.




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          #5
          of course if it is some annoying mouthy punk you can always just destroy them without mercy.....

          :)

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            #6
            The problem is that newbies shouldn't be sparring until they learn the basics to a system. This way some "control" can be exercised. After all, this isn't the wild west here! We're suppose to "learn" not just get your face smashed in.

            Comment


              #7
              MMA Phil: Thanks for the advice. It's hard not to sound (not sure of the word) like you are showing off when you chat after. "I bloodied your nose because your guard was to low", I guess its how you say it more than what you say. I'll work on that.

              Crimson Tiger: I'll try to keep that in mind. Fighting at a level just above theirs is good advice. Some of them are quite good, especially those from a Muay Thai background. Some of them are better than me, most of them are bigger. <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>

              I owe a great deal to triangle/point to point footwork. It's often the only thing that stops me being "owned" <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

              Pizdoff:If the person is totally new, slowly turning up the pace works. But because they are mostly from WC back grounds they often like to rush at you or charge in. You can almost always (unless they are very good) offline and catch them with a hook. No offence to WC intended.

              Because they are running on to it, it usually connects quite hard. And then your "ego" kicks in and you start enjoying hitting them more than you probably should.

              Controlling your ego during sparring is another thing I'm working on. although i've had my fair share of black eyes and busted lips to have earnt the right to give them to others <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

              Comment


                #8
                Work with them. Dont devastate them as CrimsonTiger said, just roll, punch, whatever, and give them helpful advice along the way, either during and/or after sparring.

                "You must be in harmony with your partner Grasshopper, like the wind and trees..."

                OK, that was a bit much. My bad..

                Comment


                  #9
                  argh BK
                  "e problem is that newbies shouldn't be sparring until they learn the basics to a system."
                  this is a whole other thread

                  What we ARE discussing are "newbies" to sparring.

                  "It's hard not to sound (not sure of the word) like you are showing off when you chat after."
                  well, sit down with them and talk earnestly one on one, unless it is an instructional thing for the rest of the class to see, point out the mistake of keeping the guard too low


                  Escrima9 - agreed, though a lot of newbs just stand there and look at me while i kick them in the head


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                  www.despair.com
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                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think teaching them a few techniques and a few combinations of those techs is how you should break in a newbie. They will be ready to "free" spar as soon as their technique list fills up so they have room to think creatively.

                    _______________________________________
                    Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising
                    I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
                    To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:
                    Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!
                    "The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my notions have only wasted my time."

                    -- George Bernard Shaw

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yes, that's what I'm saying PIzz. Oh, never mind..... thick brick equals thick head.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Clearly. Piz Doff is correct.

                        --
                        Hard work, Patience, Dedication.

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                          #13
                          I would advise against going in all guns blazing from the get go simply because that could lead to serious injuries, if your oponent hapens to be a complete newbie. For example, it's one thing connecting with the ole one-two on someone who will roll with the punches, move his head, keep his chin down and the shoulder up. This guy may get rocked, but won't suffer any serious problems. If it is a newbie, however, with his chin up and his head stationary, and hit him flush with a good jab-cross, he's gonne be out with a possible concussion, and no desire to come back. You have to turn the heat up gradualy, which does not nescesserily mean slowly, and see where your oponent stands.

                          ------------------------
                          I remain, Hapko3
                          You say what about my rice?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I think it must be mighty cloudy out here!! PizDoff is not seeing "clearly."

                            Comment


                              #15




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