Why is Karate a favored whipping boy?

[nurb]

First of all.. HI!

ok, I've done some reading and searching on the forums and have noticed that among others, Karate (shotokan spesificly) is the butt of a few comments and snide remarks, but I don't really know why. I'm not coming to its defense or whatever, but more or less curious as to why its considered inferior, useless, etc. Is it that its common? a style that kids get into? not as effective in MMA tournaments? too many belt factories? The style itself?

I ask since I'm looking for a non-arena focused (don't take that wrong) style to get into and Shotokan Shounen ryu are ones that my father and uncle got into when they were younger (we're talking 30 years ago). So obviously I want to hear opinions and reasons behind the snickering. I didn't get much info from the search, mostly because the dozens of pages some threads had that weren't on this subject

[Samfoo]

1. Shotokan sucks because they don't spar for real, they just play tag (point sparring)

2. Karate in general (with the exception of Kyokushin, and it's derivatives--Enshin, et. al.) sucks because they don't spar for real, they just play tag (point sparring)

3. People here are generally anti-asiaphiliac and people who do Karate are generally pro-asiaphiliac.

[Cormoran]

If you train it properly then you simply have to realise that all the jokes arent being aimed at you. Just the turds that turned it into some hippy dream.

[nurb]

1. Shotokan sucks because they don't spar for real, they just play tag (point sparring)

2. Karate in general (with the exception of Kyokushin, and it's derivatives--Enshin, et. al.) sucks because they don't spar for real, they just play tag (point sparring)

3. People here are generally anti-asiaphiliac and people who do Karate are generally pro-asiaphiliac.

they don't? I watched classes at their dojo some years ago more than once and they had full contact sparing. didn't realize it was a problem

If you train it properly then you simply have to realise that all the jokes arent being aimed at you. Just the turds that turned it into some hippy dream.

I'm not taking things personally, just figgerin things out :D what's the hippy dream though?

[mrblackmagic]

"Everybody is a winner."

[Cormoran]

what's the hippy dream though?

Adding spirituality where it's not needed and getting rid of anything martial about it.

it's like how you goto some places and the instructor is happy with a half second bow and then other places you waste the first twenty minutes of training on your knees bowing and scraping to some shihan that you've never met and is not even there. ( i speak from experience )

or how at some places you'll get a good amount of sparring in each lesson and others you'll be so desperate for ANY type of sparring that you'll happily travel 2 thousand kilometers just to do some point sparring. ( again, speaking from experience. )

[Poop Loops]

Do some more searching. I haven't seen a good karate thread in a while. Mostly just Wing Chun or Ninjertsu.

[BFGalbraith]

And this "full contact sparring" was?

they don't? I watched classes at their dojo some years ago more than once and they had full contact sparing. didn't realize it was a problem.

If I were you I would do a search for "sparring" here on Bullshido.net, to see what we mean by that. In Karate, there are various kinds of "sparring":

1) No (or light) contact "point sparring", that stops as soon as someone is hit (or actually almost-hit in most cases.)

2) Full-contact point sparring (where people only get "points" for actually hitting the other guy really hard.) This basically doesn't exist in the USA, but the whole notion of stop-and-go fighting is generally frowned upon, full contact or not.

3) Full contact continuous sparing without gloves and without head-punches, and with (a lot) of leg and head kicks & knee strikes. (This is what you see in the "Kykushin" types of Karate traditionally.)

4) Participation in variuos types of kickboxing competitions.

So, what of the above did you see going on at this Shotokan school? If it was none of the above, then what was it?

[nurb]

3) Full contact continuous sparing without gloves and without head-punches, and with (a lot) of leg and head kicks & knee strikes. (This is what you see in the "Kykushin" types of Karate traditionally.)

that'n, full contact, no head strikes with fists

[LolodesBois]

Karate Shotokan gets bashed because, as TKD, within the 40+ years of it's introducing in the West in got watered down badly...

Finding a shotokan school that still spars (and by spar I don't mean point-spar) has become difficult.

[Silvan]

Karate is one of the worst offenders for McDojos and Belt factories, it really shows.

[Virus]

Karate Shotokan gets bashed because, as TKD, within the 40+ years of it's introducing in the West in got watered down badly...

Finding a shotokan school that still spars (and by spar I don't mean point-spar) has become difficult.

How do you know it didn't always suck?

[PointyShinyBurn]

Karate Shotokan gets bashed because, as TKD, within the 40+ years of it's introducing in the West in got watered down badly...

No, Shotokan started off watered down. It was deliberately de-martialised by Funakoshi, who despised sparring and intended it primarily as a system of exercise.

[Virus]

Also, remember that most Karate not only lacks sparring but is also hung up on repetition of kata, dead patterns and a millitaristic style of training.

[kung_fu_zombie]

Remeber when sex was safe and karate was dangerous.........

Its not only hard to find a good school that is dedicated to sparring but its also hard to find a school that puts the proper infuses on physical fitness.