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    Failing a student

    How do you fail a student and expect them to stay? Or, how can you fix someone's technique who just has no coordination?

    I'd like to see all those people leave, but it's not my livelihhod on the line. I had a guy with absolutely no coordination come up to me and complain about someone who has no coordination. They both are like flailing apes at banana time. But many people see it as a perosnal insult to fail a test rather than as a sign that their technique needs improvement. Ideas?

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    "you think you're tough? try riding on the back of a moto in downtown Phnom Penh"---jzf

    "i left my heart in laos, but my wallet in cambodia
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.

    #2
    Well hold back the test till their ready!

    _________________________________
    Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising
    I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.
    To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:
    Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!
    "The longer I live the more I see that I am never wrong about anything, and that all the pains that I have so humbly taken to verify my notions have only wasted my time."

    -- George Bernard Shaw

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      #3
      I have seen people fail but not because they arew uncoordinated. Everyone has their own black belt level. As you know some people are better fighters than others. Not every black belt is supposed fight professionally. If you don't try hard enough, give the effort, put the time in you should fail. But I will not test anyone until they are ready. If I think they need to work on something I make sure they do but I would not test them if they couldn't do it. I would tell them they aren't ready to test.

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        #4
        only thing for it

        be honest with your students


        How many Zen masters does it take to change a light bulb?

        > Two. One to change it, and one not to change it.

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          #5
          Cyrijl,

          I recommend that the teacher make a policy where the prospective testing students have to ask permission to take the upcoming exam. The teacher should know if the student is ready for the exam. If not, then the teacher should tell the student to wait until a future exam, but give them specific things to improve upon until the next exam. A short private lesson could help point out corrections to the student, and give them things to work on.

          I wouldn't worry too much about losing the student. If they[the students] have a good attitude and respect for the teacher, then they will realize that the teacher is trying to help them, not belittle them. If they quit over it, then they have the wrong attitude and should not be a student of martial art at all.

          It should be important for an instructor to produce quality students and not conduct a "race" for belt colors.

          Comment


            #6
            True, you'll find out if what they want is recognition of their skill or just a belt to show off


            How many Zen masters does it take to change a light bulb?

            > Two. One to change it, and one not to change it.

            Comment


              #7
              One suggestion to minimize failing at a the main examination is to do stripe testing between tests. This is a way to get them prepared for the main test as well as point out what they need to work on. It is a lot easier to fail someone at a stripe test without hurting their feelings or insulting them. Kind of like a pop quiz. It will show them what they need to work on prior to the big examination.

              Once the examination has come and gone and they still fail, you have at least given them a fair warning on what they were doing wrong. Rather or not they prepared for it is their own problem.

              BTW....some people look at stripe testing as a way to suck more money from a client. This is not so. Do not charge the students for this type of examination. Hold a couple of them each one focusing on different levels of what they need to know. Example first stripe test, they need to have their new kicking techniques down, second stripe test the need to know their new form....etc..

              Plus

              Jeremy M. Talbott
              http://www.koreanma.homestead.com/index.html
              http://www.martialscience.homestead.com/home.html
              Jeremy M. Talbott

              Originally posted by Phrost
              "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
              Originally posted by D.Murray
              "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
              Originally posted by hangooknamja88
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                #8
                How do you fail a student and expect them to stay? Or, how can you fix someone's technique who just has no coordination?

                I'd like to see all those people leave, but it's not my livelihhod on the line. I had a guy with absolutely no coordination come up to me and complain about someone who has no coordination. They both are like flailing apes at banana time. But many people see it as a perosnal insult to fail a test rather than as a sign that their technique needs improvement. Ideas?
                The only way to do it is in a positive manner. Find the quality that they do posess and emphasize it. Give them constructive criticism, and let them know what they have to do to improve. Most people will respond positivly if you approach them in a positive manner.

                Sincerely,

                Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
                Willing is not enough, we must do.
                Knowing it is not enough, we must apply.
                Willing is not enough, we must do.

                Never approach a Bull from the front, a Horse from the rear, or a Fool from any direction!

                He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- Thomas Payne

                Comment


                  #9
                  Bah, just fail their asses and watch them cry.

                  I didn't get any consolation during my green belt test (which I failed). In fact, I was told that I was "disgusting". Anyone care to guess how that made me feel?

                  Needless to say, I'm still around, but that type of attitude does tend to alienate people. Myself included. I'm pretty thick-skinned, but even I didn't appreciate that. If I fail, I failed. Fine. But don't be negative. And don't make them wait a zillion years to retest. Give them a deadline. Two weeks to a month. If more than that is needed, they shouldn't have been testing in the first place.

                  Regards,
                  CrimsonTiger

                  "Wake me up.
                  Bid my blood to run.
                  I can't wake up.
                  Before I come undone.
                  Save me.
                  Save me from the nothing I've become." -Evanescence, Bring Me To Life
                  Regards,
                  CrimsonTiger

                  "Na'h, they should go to old school rules.
                  One guy gets sword and sheild, the other gets a net and a trident.
                  Lions eat christians between rounds." - Strong Machine

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Everyone has their own black belt level
                    cuz who needs standards right?

                    ---------
                    Shut up and train

                    Comment


                      #11
                      An instructor or senior student should be there to help these people, not judge them. If they need a little bit more help with a certain thing let them know and help them. Be honest with them. Martial arts are not about getting someone to black belt as fast as they can its about helping people. How are you helping someone if you lie to them and pass them on a test if they do not deserve to pass? There are enough black belts in the martial arts nowadays who don't desrve it. Harsh? yes, but it's true. A student will not hate you for making them do something right......you know, thats what there there for. Being honest can be a very hard thing espeacially when it might hurt someone elses feeling, but after they get through that point they will realize you were just trying to help and look up to you even more.

                      Stanlee

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                        #12
                        I liked Zujitsu's post for the part where he said he's tell the person they aren't ready.

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                          #13
                          Fisting Kittens, If that was in regard to my comment its not about standards. Teh standards are set. I cannot expect my students to do things the way I do, thats impossible. We have have different body types and move in different ways. I do not want to make any clones anyway. I want my students to learn what best works for them not what works best for me. I may be more athletic than some but that doesn't mean because your are stiff or rigid you can't make a rank. It also doesn't mean you will not find people of the same rank that have better technique. Just my philosiphy and the way Iwas trained. We don't want robots or clones, just people who can defend themselves to the best of their ability.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            "Always be a first-rate version of yourself, instead of a second-rate version of somebody else." "
                            --Judy Garland

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                              #15
                              <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:
                              cuz who needs standards right?

                              ---------
                              Shut up and train
                              <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote>

                              No, that is the reason that some people should neve be black belts.
                              And that's when I figured out that tears couldn't make somebody who was dead alive again. There's another thing to learn about tears, they can't make somebody who doesn't love you any more love you again. It's the same with prayers. I wonder how much of their lives people waste crying and praying to God. If you ask me, the devil makes more sense than God does. I can at least see why people would want him around. It's good to have somebody to blame for the bad stuff they do. Maybe God's there because people get scared of all the bad stuff they do. They figure that God and the Devil are always playing this game of tug-of-war game with them. And they never know which side they're gonna wind up on. I guess that tug-of-war idea explains how sometimes, even when people try to do something good, it still turns out bad.

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