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Mc Dojo or Mc Martial Art

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    Mc Dojo or Mc Martial Art

    I have read many of the forum posts on this site. For the most part people pick on Tae Kwon Do. I completely understand why TKD gets picked on so much. I have train in TKD for many years. When I moved to a new city I searched endlessly for a good TKD school. Every school I researched was a Mc Dojo. I then decided to try a different style. I found Mc Dojo's in every style. Karate, Shotokan, BJJ, Aikido, KungFu. At some schools I found instructors claiming to be masters with no real credentials. A school in my area taught BJJ. They used the gracie academy logo. They were sued by the Gracie Academy because nobody at the school was qualified to teach BJJ. In fact the school owner was traditional Japanese JJ not BJJ. MC dojo to the Core. It is important to understand that the Style of the martial art does not make a MC DOJO, it is the Instructor.

    #2
    They were sued because they used a trademarked name that was Whorian took a copyright out on. There are many qualified people that have great teaching methods but dont have a piece of paper certifying them as instructors. You dont need a certificate in the U.S. to teach martial arts. I think anyone should be able to share the knowledge they have. If they are bad instructors then people just wont learn from them. Alot of schools and styles make becaoming an instructor a payday. Pay xxx THOUSAND dollars and YOU TOO can be CERTIFIED! Let me ask you, who certified Ed Parker to teach Kenpo? Or Kano to teach Judo? Or Uyeshiba in Aikido? Nobody. They were good instructors and they passed knowledge on to others. they didnt need some money GRUB to give them a peice of paper saying it was ok.

    90% of the schools that come from lineage and everything else are BOOLSHIT. Look at William Cheung's organization. They guy would sell used underwear with his name on it.

    Some of these guys are GOOD but they have to LIE about credentials because we build up belts and ranks to be so important. Even William Chow proclaimed himself a FIFTEENTH degree black belt!

    "Migo is such a nerdy, panzy ass, faggot mutherfukker." -Every member of the ADCC Forum(at one time or another).
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!

    Comment


      #3
      Okay, I have a question then. If a guy wants to share what he has learned - get a few students and train privately or start a club or small school - but he doesn't have an official rank. How can he do that without being a McDojo? Can someone do it without being sued or getting bad press from the certified guys?

      I guess if you are honest, a hard worker and you don't sell BS then you could do it .. but what about:

      *insurance?

      *competition .. well, there are open tournaments, freestyle and mma events now but how do you deal with rank and .. I guess you'd have to ..

      have other schools you are friends with and kind of work with a little..

      hmm

      my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!

      Comment


        #4
        I completely agree with you. That is why I researched that school a little more. After talking to students and friends, the school turned out to be a belt factory. Nobody ever fails a test. This is the only BJJ school in my area doing this. There is another BJJ school here and the Instructor is great. Earning a rank at this guys school is very hard.

        There is a Tae Kwon Do School here that is a complete Mc Dojo/Belt Factory. The head instructor is a self proclaimed 5th degree black belt. I watched her test for her 1st dan in February. In March I saw her at a Competition wearing a 5th dan. I came accross a similar situation at Japanese Karate School. The instructor was a 2nd dan in Shotokan, 1st in Ju Jitsu, made his own style by blending those two arts, and called himself master.

        My Point is McDojos are apart of every style. Some styles are more marketable than others. The more marketable styles end up having billions served with complementary fries.

        Look at the BJJ explosion following the UFC competitions. Countless schools appeared out of thin air claiming to teach BJJ. When properly researched none of the schools actualy taught BJJ. Same Thing happend with Tae Kwon Do in 1988. After TKD was in the Olympics as a demostration sport, many schools popped up to capitalize on the new found popularity of the art. This is when all the TKD Mc Dojos were created.

        Comment


          #5
          Hate to tell you this guys but MOST instructors have NO IDEA how to teach. There is a saying:

          "Repetition is the mother of skill."Most schools have students doing different things every day so the student can feel like hes learning alot. Hes not. Hes being SHOWN alot. Hes learning nothing. The only strikes I did for the first YEAR of my training were Jab, Cross, Front Kick, Round Kick and Knee. These were practiced in an INSANE amount of ways from focus mitts to heavy bags to x -ray paper and partners. Those techniques were combined into combos that were realistic. Defending AGAINST those techniques was also a big part. Close range self defense was included also, but I still feel that if I ever had to throw hands in a real confrontation it would be THOSE things I would use.

          As for rank, who CARES! Rank is a business practice now and nothing more. If you created a system with 'levels' to it, then YOU are responsible for enforcing those levels. YOU created them. If you SUCK then hopefully a good instructor will put you out of business. The only black belts I hold are in Karate. But when my academy opens I will not just teach Karate. I have a blue blet in BJJ and have studied kickboxing for a while. I LOVED practicing Escrima, but am TOTALLY not a master at it. I DO know enough about it to teach the basic strikes and disarms which is really all a student needs to defend themselves or use a stick against an attacker.

          Im not a black belt in BJJ but I can teach someone how to escape the mount and how to armbar someone just as good as someone who IS a black belt. The basics are what matters. Im not going to STOP training so my knowledge will increase over the years and I will be able to bring more techniques to my students because of it.

          I also took public speaking classes and have read books on education. I worked for a major Karate school and have taught classes with over 5o people in them at one time. I am certified in CPR (of course we all have to RE certify) and am always learning about supplements and nutrition.

          I may not be a 5th degree black belt but I honestly believe that all these things gives me more to offer the common student than many 5th degree black belts.

          "Migo is such a nerdy, panzy ass, faggot mutherfukker." -Every member of the ADCC Forum(at one time or another).
          "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


          Reverse punch Kiaii!!!

          Comment


            #6
            I am not certified to teach per se nor are the other instructors at my new MMA program. I run my own MMA program at a local gym. We just started two weeks ago, We have 4 days of training per week, each day devoted to a particular element of martial arts.

            I think our program is top notch and I agree with Peedee that someone does not need a piece of paper with some retarded stamp of approval by a board of guys who probably haven't exercised since they recieved their BB's.

            Martial arts in the US have gone down hill, not that they've ever been amazing but at least teachers used to adhere to a policy of honesty.

            Comment


              #7
              How do you handle insurance though? Some guy could come to your school for a week, get hurt and sue you.

              Is it just like any other small business as far as paperwork?

              I think it would be cool to have martial arts class three days a week. Have open gym time for people who need a place to come and train on their own. Have a club meeting once a week where anyone is welcome to come to in which ideas are exchanged in a friendly lab. But how do you cover yourself from people who would take advantage of you?


              my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!

              Comment


                #8

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think the problem is that most styles are not HALF of what they claim to be and the students and instructors of these arts are walking talking proof of that.

                  Take 10FOD: I know I bust his ballz and everything, but he seems like a knowledgable guy and hes articulate. I see no reason why he shouldnt be able to teach the techniques he knows to others.

                  I know from experience that teaching things like wrist locks to a 90lbs woman makes that woman doubt the art she is in. From a TECHNICAL standpoint a 90lbs woman SHOULd be able to wristlock a 250lbs attacker, but she KNOWS that in reality it will never happen. She may even put on a convincing display in a very controlled environment, but it is just a display. You can understand a technique like that forward backward and sideways but understanding WHY it SHOULD work will not make it work.

                  "Migo is such a nerdy, panzy ass, faggot mutherfukker." -Every member of the ADCC Forum(at one time or another).
                  "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


                  Reverse punch Kiaii!!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    9chambers....well though I hate doing it we make our students sign waivers. I don't like doing it this way but we're too small to make doing anything else worthwhile. Once we get bigger we're gonna do an insurance program. The big thing is our students have confidence in our program because we tell them the facts.

                    Also our "school"is extremely affordable it's only 25 bucks a month on top of gym fees. I mean for the cost of an average school you get free gym access, and 4 days of realistic fight training. That's pretty reasonable I believe.

                    You can see that I'm not making a ton of cash off of this, in fact very little....but I teach because I love teaching and I know what's gonna help even the odds in a fight and what will get your ass kicked. We also make it a requirement that our students lift weights and practice cardio at least 3 times a week because we don't our students having false sense of security in their techniques if they aren't in good enough shape to apply them.

                    BTW, Thanks PeeDee, the same can be said for you. You also don't BS which is a good thing, you believe in what you know but don't cling to it as if your arts can do no wrong. I agreed that you'd make a good teacher.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I am pretty sure they can still sue you even if they sign a waiver.

                      Okay, so lets say you rent a facility. You have access to punching bags and mats. The students buy their own pads and gear. You charge them a monthly fee. You sign waivers and then you are legal. That's it?

                      my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I am pretty sure they can still sue you even if they sign a waiver.

                        Okay, so lets say you rent a facility. You have access to punching bags and mats. The students buy their own pads and gear. You charge them a monthly fee. You sign waivers and then you are legal. That's it?
                        No. You still need commerical liability coverage against accidents that might occur on the premises. All that waiver does is provide you SOME protection against a civil suit, but no guarantees. You still are subject to criminal prosecution for failing to take necessary precautions and carrying the proper insurance. When you take someone's money as payment for services rendered, you are a commercial establishment and abide by all legal requirements governing your business.

                        If you don't take any money and just have people bring their own equipment, you are not a commercial establishment, though you must still have insurance. There's no perfect protection. You still have liabilities, but your exposure is somewhat lessened.

                        Talk to a lawyer. It's cheaper than losing your pants.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          "I agree that a piece of paper does not mean you are qualified to be an instructor. That is a big controversy in the martial arts. Some people hold the official credentials and are horrible teachers. The problem is that a certificate makes a difference in the ability to get insurance for your school. "

                          Reply]
                          My Kung Fu system has NO rank (I actually created one for marketing purpose), and I have no problem getting insurance. It even pays my legal bills if something happenes.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            yea but you have some kind of credentials, right?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Nope, just 13 years of experiance

                              well, I have an assitant instructer certificate from my Tai Tzu teacher, and his authorisation to hold a study group. And I am a member of the Cloud Forest Chinese martial arts association.

                              I have a Blue Sash in Master Tsai's Kung Fu (taught in ealy 90's)

                              Most of my trainig has been in small underground groups in parks, backyards and basements/Garages with little public ascess. No lesson payments, no uniforms, no ranks, no patches, stripes or gold stars, just really good Kung Fu, and great barbaque after class. I am currently working with an underground Shui Chiao group (no name, just a bunch of guys) and I study under a senior of Wai Lun Choi for my internal practice.

                              When your good, you really don't need credentials, your teaching ability and knowledge speak for you.

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