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    Shotokan Grappling

    http://w3.blackbeltmag.com/featurecontent/view.asp?article=189

    Okay, if the school profiled in this Black Belt article isn't a McDojo, I don't know what the hell is.

    #2
    How is this a McDojo?

    All he's saying is Shotokan can be effectively used to supplement Ground Skill.

    Stop wasting your time.

    Comment


      #3
      How is this a McDojo?

      All he's saying is Shotokan can be effectively used to supplement Ground Skill.

      Stop wasting your time.

      It is BOOOOOSHEEEEEEEET!!!! Thats why. That is bullshit. Deliver a hammer fist while someone is mounted on you?? RIIIGHTT.

      Comment


        #4
        Wheels,

        OK. So how is it not possible to deliver a back fist when someone is mounted on you?

        True being mounted means you are in trouble, but seriously, is it really impossible to deliver a back fist to a guy when he mounts you?

        Wheels, you are very funny! Congratulations!

        Comment


          #5
          Of cousre you can backfist someone when they mount you. It's just not going to work very well.

          A.K.A MEAT

          Comment


            #6
            or you could stab or shoot him.

            Comment


              #7
              OMG, now I have seen it ALL! Shotokan ground-fighting, HAH!

              What a seriously flawed load of bullshite!

              Seriously, those methods are poor and are based on defending against unrealistic attacks. I'd trust 1 MONTH in BJJ over 10 YEARS of Shotokan for ground-fighting!

              Comment


                #8

                Comment


                  #9
                  Looks to me like an afterthought because of the popularity of grappling... and its not a complete repertoire of ground fighting at all.

                  Lemme see here... generic armbar, they claim its shotokan. yawn.
                  Elbow to the groin... yawn
                  Defeating a pin with a roundhouse (this is on the ground of course, click the pic for how it supposedly works)... yawn
                  Stupidest mount I've ever seen, the attacker then twists so he can be hammerfisted, pushed off, and punched again... yawn

                  Not very impressive... its basically Bad Grappling and non-resisting opponents 101

                  <Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
                  <John> I'd have to smack you sometime...
                  Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."

                  Comment


                    #10
                    9chambers wrote:
                    *I see guys in mma competitions strike from the guard all the time. Guys in the mount strike back all the time.*
                    There's a biiiig difference between being in the guard position and having someone mounting you. Just because you're on the bottom doesn't mean you're in the guard, and just because you're on top doesn't mean you're mounted. Sorry if you already knew this, but the above quote makes it unclear.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      9 Chambers- Of course we know that you can strike well if you have the guard. We are talking about striking someone while being mounted.

                      A.K.A MEAT

                      Edited by - Mr. Donkeypenis on August 09 2002 16:29:06

                      Comment


                        #12
                        9Chambers doesnt know what he's talking about. Strikes can be used when your mounted 'very effectively'? You've never been mounted then. Id beat you bloody. You cant even REACH the top persons head from the bottom. Thats the MAIN ADVANTAGE of the mounted position: You can strike your opponent, but distance and gravity prevents him from doing the same. Next hes going to say that you can grab the top guys nuts or poke his eyes to get him off......

                        "Migo is such a nerdy, panzy ass, faggot mutherfukker." -Every member of the ADCC Forum(at one time or another).
                        "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


                        Reverse punch Kiaii!!!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Boxer Melton Bowen came the closest of anyone I've seen to doing real damage to his opponent from the mounted position...

                          That was a fight against Steve Jennum. Bowen actually looked like he was hurting Jennum from the bottom, and Jennum's girl punches didn't hurt him in the least... Jennum then finally got a clue and armbarred Bowen. You see, even if you're a powerful striker and can land good punches while mounted, that basically invites an armbar.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Peedee,

                            The mount would consist of:

                            (The process of mounting, being in the mount and maintaining the mount. I think that is obvious.)

                            You could get a guy in a naked choke from behind and ask, what would you do if this happened. The guy might not have an answer. But try getting him in that choke and you might never be able to apply it on him. The whole process is what counts.

                            -

                            While you are mounting someone, even while you are in the mount, they can grab your sleeve, pull you down and hit you. A fell on me and had me mounted in a street fight - I grabbed his shirt, pulled him down and got him in a headlock.

                            I guess that's why shirts aren't worn as much anymore on the UFC. In the beggining there was a lot of shirt pulling going on. Of course, wearing no shirts hurts jujutsu guys more than strikers. A lot of jujutsu tech is for grabbing the lapel.

                            -

                            There are a few variations of the mount.

                            You can be laying on top of someone - chest to chest. You see the Gracie's using this a lot.
                            The guy could pull your hair and chop at your spine but that isn't legal.

                            Lets say you are too far up for them to hit you because you are upright and they are on their back. This is harder to maintain when your opponant is bucking wildly instead of waiting for a chance to grab your arm and pull you into a choke like in your Jujutsu school. Your position can be manipulated. Besides, staying up there gets you nowhere. Why NOT wait until you try to do something and then hit you.

                            I know you can't reach their head. That is why you grab the arms. You didn't actually read my post, did you? .. Admit it.

                            If the guy on top can reach you - then you can reach him, that is just common sense. I think you just are not really educated about striking. You don't throw jabs from your biceps. You force it out from your shoulder and lat, half your torso will twist up, the ground can be used for leverage.

                            You make it sound like the guard is useless. Way to be anti-BJJ.

                            You'd bloody me, hu? Maybe my you'd bloody knuckles. :)

                            my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I was in a hurry to go eat earlier .. so I rushed through that last post. Here is what I meant to say.

                              You bloody me, hu? Maybe you'd bloody my knuckles with your ignorant yapping mouth. :)

                              Reading just the first line of someone's post is kind of rude and a little air-headed. Go back and read that earlier post again and you will see that I mentioned pulling arms, grabbing, pulling, pushing and bucking for position is necessary to set up the strike fromt he guard.

                              Maybe you can't strike from the guard .. maybe its because you suck at grappling. I don't know. I can strike from the guard and I've done it in sparring quite frequently. Its easy.

                              Maybe its easy for me because I've been mixing the martial arts for 20 years. (I'm 31) I know my grappling and I know my strikes and kicks and I know how they fit together. I wrestled, I studied JJ, Hapkido, Judo, etc. The stuff I see in BJJ is stuff I was doing in the 80's. Its nothing new and exciting. MMA looks like what I was playing in grade school, practicing in Jr. high and mastered before anyone in America ever heard of the Vale Tudo. I am not just some TKD camo belt kid saying you can punch from the guard.

                              Don't dissmiss something before you've tried it. Even worse - don't think that just because you suck too much to do something that nobody else can do it. lol

                              my kung fu eeeeeees better than yours!

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