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guys and girls equal in BJJ?

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    guys and girls equal in BJJ?

    So theoretically guys want more girls to join BJJ and girls should want to handle themselves better on the ground ...

    So why is it that guys generally don't seem to respect BJJ girls as equals? Yes there are those that dress skimpy and love the attention, and there are those who can't take a hit, and there are those who cry ... but if you're a female and your skills are just as good as the guys, why do guys still prefer to roll with other guys when they're training seriously (not just trying to get a cheap thrill)?

    #2
    I used to train with a close friend that was about 5 foot 6 inches and 130 pounds. She was tough as nails would regularly tap out the guys. She gave it like she got it. I never had any preferences about rolling with her.

    Sifu Emin - Did you see that?
    Me - (gasping) No, but I can't breathe yet.

    Comment


      #3
      Men will generally have advantages in activities where size and strength play a part.

      But that is only because, and I know I sound by saying this, because of their general size and strength advantage.

      There are exceptions to every rule. My sister was a gymnast for 10 years and was in superb physical condition before she got to big for the sport. You know what she did next, cheerleading and wrestling. She was the first female wrestler at my high school and routinely had to face males at meets where their weren't enough other girls to make her own division. She used her athletic ability to make it to state in her first year in competition. There she finally met up with someone who had enough technique to combat her strength and beat her.

      It would seem to me that something like BJJ that prides itself on being the MA where size and strength don't matter, women could do just as well as men.

      I myself have been given a run for my money by women many times, and my art is primarly striking. My 100 lb girlfriend is the current adult weapons strking power champion, as measured by a bag with a internal force sensor, and hits hard enough for me to repsect her power even at twice her weight. Again she has an exception physcial background and did years of dancing (as in ballet, not as in pole) before starting MA. She is freakishly strong for her size. Her ability to asborb damage however, is more on par with what you would think about someone her size.

      The one student my instructor trusts enough to run our 2nd dojo location is also a woman. She is an exceptional martial artist, teacher, and has the business sense to manage the dojo without a lot of constant input from the owner. This allows him to concentratre on our other dojo across town where he teaches.

      I think women have ever place in MA as men, so why do men, including myself sometimes treat them different? Well, for one, it can be embarassing to be beat by a girl and doesn't mean much to others if you can beat one, but everyone has heard that agrument. The other one that holds more water today, is the fear that someone make take something done in training the wrong way and accuse ou of harassment.

      I'm not saying all women are looking to sue. It's just something that is right in the front of my mind everytime I work out with someone of the opposite sex that isn't my girlfriend. I don't want any mistakes.

      <marquee>Dragon , Snake , Tiger , Leopard , Crane. R.M.F.A.F.T.A.T.! </marquee>

      Comment


        #4
        Punisher,
        I know more about your sister gymnast than any other member on the board! heh. . .

        Seriously though, I know that when I rolled with my friend, who happened to be pretty attractive, I had the occasional sexual thought. At the same time, when we would work on stand up stuff, I wouldn't have them. Maybe the close and prolonged body contact of BJJ makes guys uncomfortable to be rolling with females. Maybe I didn't have a problem with it since I knew her before we started training.

        Flame on everyone. . .

        Sifu Emin - Did you see that?
        Me - (gasping) No, but I can't breathe yet.

        Comment


          #5
          strength comes in to play more when much more important considerations such as timing,distance,angle, and leverage are either misunderstood of neglected.

          they are worth their weight in gold, and are the key elements that make techniques 'work'. not that strength cant get the job done, just that is really quite inferior to proper technique.

          add strength to proper executed technique and now you have big problems.

          so, a skilled female tactician should be able to hold her own against larger, stronger males who rely more on strength than methods. i have seen my wife embarass some people in various classes or seminars with her excellent timing skills. she is a wicked little creature.

          i do cut her 'some' slack in training though, because she cannot absorb the damage that males with their generally superior mass and muscle density can.

          i have had quite a few female students who i felt were superior to quite a few males. they are MUCH easier to teach.

          peace.

          <marquee>LIUSEONGPOEKULANPENTJAKKUNTAOSILATREDANTINDONESIANGUNGFU</marquee>

          Comment


            #6
            "Seriously though, I know that when I rolled with my friend, who happened to be pretty attractive, I had the occasional sexual thought. At the same time, when we would work on stand up stuff, I wouldn't have them. Maybe the close and prolonged body contact of BJJ makes guys uncomfortable to be rolling with females. Maybe I didn't have a problem with it since I knew her before we started training."

            When I was president of my college MA club there were quite a few women in the classes I taught, especially the self-defense variety. I can honestly say that nothing is more attractive to me than an atheletic powerful woman.

            I had to try very, very hard, and please try to remember I did this when I was 18-21 and full of hormones, to not abuse my power as an instructor. I can honestly say I never rolled around with a student just to be close to her and smell her hair, never asked females to demonstrate certain partner stretches with me, or perform any movement just to look down their shirt or something like that. I can't say I didn't THINK or DREAM about it, only I never DID it.

            I still felt guilty about dating some of these girls outside of my classes, but I was able to make peace with it because I was NOT charging anyone any money for teaching and didn't test or promote people for rank, so I really didn't have a whole lot of power over them.

            Still whenever I want that "special" feeling I can just close my eyes and see those girls kicking ass in their spandex and sports bras. One major reason I encourgaed my girlfriend to enroll at the dojo with me, I find it such a turn-on.

            I guess that is why I am so careful with females in class. If I used to think that way, I know other guys in the class are doing the same thing right now. As long as they keep their thoughts, and hands (within reason of course this is MA), to themselves there shouldn't be a problem.

            Like I said, I don't want any mistakes when it comes from me though. I try not to give a female partenr ANY reason to think that there is any reason at all I might be interested in her in any way other than as a training partner like anyone else.

            P.S. Several times while typing this post when trying to type the word "women" I found myself subconciously typing "weapon". Just goes to show how dangerous I think they can really be.

            <marquee>Dragon , Snake , Tiger , Leopard , Crane. R.M.F.A.F.T.A.T.! </marquee>



            Edited by - Punisher on May 15 2003 04:22:22

            Comment


              #7
              Punisher,
              Yeah proffesionalism at all times is a must, regardless of what might be running through your head. That was what I always keep in mind.

              Sifu Emin - Did you see that?
              Me - (gasping) No, but I can't breathe yet.

              Comment


                #8
                Pun,

                I brought my girl down to watch us roll at the academy when she first got here. The Gracies were gracious hosts and Rorion gave us all a great guided tour of the Gracie Museum.

                Course, guys being guys alot of stares at her watching us roll. One of the purps I knew from rolling asked me who she was, and was actually very polite telling me she was a stunner. I took it more of a compliment than anything else. After the class, she told me she wanted to train. Fine by me, really. She's so double jointed she'll be arm barring guys and triangling them in no time. Okay, I'm kinda bothered about the triangle thought. It's all about trust. I must repeat to myself, I will not kill any man I see in her guard... I will not kill any man I see in her guard... I will not kill any man I see in her guard... I will not kill any man I see in her guard...



                ==================
                "When we go to the ground, you are in my world. The ground is the ocean, I am the shark, and most people don't even know how to swim." RCJ Machado
                Originally posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
                "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".

                Comment


                  #9
                  Well, I was rolling with a very strong, very experienced guy the other day and he tapped me a few times, but once he went out of his way to tell me that he only got one submission "on pure strength; I couldn't have tapped you otherwise".

                  I think the reason most guys are hesitant to train with women is that the vast majority of women in martial arts are pussy whiners who think after six months they get magical powers to defeat 300 pound Samoans. They cry, gossip and don't try hard enough. They can't take a hit and they don't want to get sweaty or "look bad". I just want to learn, and if that means getting a broken nose, I'll take it, or not being able to wear shorts because of the bruises, I won't.

                  Anthony, you sound very enlightened. [rolleyes]

                  "I'm willing to bet I could fuck up an emu real good, if I got the drop on the bastard."
                  -- KC Elbows, my new hero.
                  Monkey Ninjas! Attack!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I know I had to resort to pure strength at times against my friend. Her technique and skill was
                    too damn good and 0wned me quite a few times.

                    Sifu Emin - Did you see that?
                    Me - (gasping) No, but I can't breathe yet.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      THere is only 1 women I haven't rolled with in my BJJ class and when I am going to be partner'd up with her she always jokes around and says she doesn't want to roll with me just becuase I am stronger then her I guess.

                      She mostly prefers rolling with women, but mostly the women I roll with are a joke when it comes to technique. Maybe because they are new I don't know. I roll'd with a person ranking was quite higher then my own. She had good guard defense but basically I could just easily stack her legs.

                      And then she couldn't handle the weight I put ontop of her chest and she usually wouldn't last long enough to tap her. I think that justs becuase the women at my school are whiners.

                      And then when I was rolling with a guy, she asked me why I don't roll that hard with her when I roll with her, and simply put I was thinking that it would have killed her if I was going as hard as I was against a full grown man as if I was rolling that hard with her.
                      I'll make one when I can find one I like.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I weight 240 lbs., next question?

                        ~
                        danny

                        "All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          When I was in my college, I and my friend have a martial arts club. We try to keep it secretive but we often put on a small exhibition in weight room or gym to attract more recurits. Unforunately most males look to us as a challenge and often tried to challenge or spar us. So We managed to recurited four female and only one male. It was a diaster because all female are really wimp and the male was always doing ridicoulsly moves. After a month the instrucot on college campus finally find out about our club and suggest to take over it. So we hand it to him, after that two other males join and only one girl remain in. It is so difficult because female often make better student and usually won't try to challenge us or anything. But it is totally different with males.

                          But now I am in Master Toddy Muay Thai and there are probably more female than male. But all of them trainned really hard and few days ago I got beat up by old woman. It was horrible, she was really BIG and old but yet she kick my ass big time in punching contest. Also I have sparred with girls few time and never really have any problem because when I spar with a girl I tend to think of them just as a dummy (I do that with the male too). I do that so I don't pay attention to their face so I cannot see the fear or pain and feel bad and go easy on them.

                          Other than that I have saw a girl beating one of my friend up in wrestling match. It was so embarassing for him because the girl didn't go for pin but just torture him by throwing him around and slamming him into the mat. I wish I could see that again, it was best wrestling match I ever saw.

                          so basically here is the list of problem:

                          Male: Female:

                          Bragging Whinning

                          Think he will be surround by chicks /// think she will be able to beat any huge man up

                          Want to kick every guys who look at his gf after a month of training /// Do stupid things in dangerous situtation instead of using her brain

                          Think he know what is the best in everythings /// Think she can't do
                          a thing because of her size


                          Think he have to act and be all tough /// Think she have to be all beautiful and lady-like

                          complain about how gay certain things looks /// complain about how it mess her hair, make up, and looks


                          Think he should go easier on girls /// Think all guys should go harder on her

                          Put people down /// Gossips

                          Want to tear everyone a new asshole /// Don't want to hurt anybody

                          Try to take advantage of girls when rolling /// Think everyone is sexual harassing her

                          Lust /// Paranoid

                          Think he can muscle his way out of every things /// Think she can use all crappy tap touching to beat rapist up

                          This list is only for regular Mr Joe or Ms Jane that is found in college. This just show that both female and male could be as bad as eachother. To be honest I would perfect have a female student because they tend to try stay out of trouble (hopefully they will keep that instict forever).

                          Once after watching exhibition of me and my friend sparring. A girl who was raped ask me to teach her self defense and I just reply "that is very simple, press the emergency button in your room" and she got all pissed off and whine then I told her "if I teach you self defense then you will end up try to beat every guys up instead of doing what is the wise. I don't even try to fight a guy who probably would hand me my ass, that is why I do revenge fu on side".

                          But the biggest negative is female tend to not have a killer instict that male does or want to go easy during training. But male tend to want to beat everyone up at drop of hat and hurt everyone while training. So basically both of them are just as bad as eachother.

                          "Most likely to get hit by a meteor shower: Ballonknot" By PizDoff

                          maybe he is afraid we will all realise he is an angry 4 foot midget
                          (PizDoff's comment about KFSS not showing up at McThrowdown)

                          Edited by - Fatality Dragon on May 15 2003 12:52:17
                          I would pick bag work over masturbating, fighting over sex, and KOing someone over having a orgasm!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I was reading an article recently about Erin Toughill. Convinced me not to mess with her.

                            Your skills are EXTRAordinary; You have our Gratitude.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I'd love to go out with a BJJ girl myself, actually. Too bad They're kinda rare...

                              I "roll" around with a uh... female best-friend with semi-benefits a lot. I love doing it... but it would be pretty dumb to try submitting her or choking her. Besides, why would I want to pass her "guard" anyway? I taught her a few reverses and sweeps, but we just do that to roll over. But the problem is I don't mind being in her "guard" or "mounted" by her. Its hardly anything more than dry-humping, though. Unfortunately :(

                              Being in a class with a woman I knew like that (gf, whatnot) would require a LOT of strong-will on my part. But, being in a class infront of other people would probably make me too embarassed to do anything.

                              If it was just a female friend or another person in the class who happened to be female, I doubt I'd do much except be mindful of the fact that she is infact, a she, and not be TOO rough. No squishing her breasts or putting my forearm on her face/neck.

                              Just... in class with someone I had feelings for... BAD idea.


                              BTW - a long time ago I was told to be careful never to put a lot of pressure (especially hit in any way) a woman's lower stomach, for obvious reasons. Specifically, between the navel and the groin. Is that a valid consideration? Having a full bladder and someone's knee there can hurt like a bitch, let me tell you, but I don't have a uterus or ovaries to worry about.

                              <Me> John, what do you know about Zen Buddhism? <John> *smacks me*
                              <John> I'd have to smack you sometime...
                              Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."

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