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    Judo vs. BJJ

    I have been studying BJJ and our instructor wants us to learn Judo type throws, so I got curious about Judo and what they do and it shocked me to see that they do the exact same moves on the ground as BJJ. The focus is different, Judo with it's throws and BJJ with it's ground work, but the moves and even much of the philosophy seems to be the same. So why has BJJ had tremendous success in the last decade and Judo hasn't seemed to have any success? I think I remember one Judo guy in one of the real early UFC fights that beat a Kickboxer but that is all I think I have ever seen of Judo in real fighting. When a Judo guy gets to the ground, wouldn't he fight just like a BJJ guy? Are Judo throws practicle in real fighting or do they just look neat and fun to do?

    #2
    BJJ was derived from Judo

    Comment


      #3
      no....BJJ and JUDO were derived from jujustu, derived from an earlier art...i think there is alot of difference on the ground between judo and BJJ. There are only so many numbers of taking someone down. The genius of BJJ was the inventiveness at the time. Don't be surprised is judo takes from bjj and bjj from judo.

      -----------------------------------------------------------
      "you think you're tough? try riding on the back of a moto in downtown Phnom Penh"---jzf

      "i left my heart in laos, but my wallet in cambodia
      There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.

      Comment


        #4
        It was a joke before, but now I'm serious...

        STFU N00B!!11!

        ~
        danny

        "All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

        Comment


          #5
          It's a little weird, but I'm beginning to think it's an attitude thing. I read an article recently where a judo guy (3 degree black belt or something; not a beginner) was going on and on about how DIFFICULT it is when your opponent goes into a turtle (4 point) and how hard it is to fight them and I was thinking "You give a decent BJJ your back like that and they're licking their lips and purring. That's where they WANT you to be."

          I mean, I'm a rank beginner and I'm always in 4-point and it's BAD for me, not bad for my opponent.

          Anyways, there's my ignorant, biased view of the thing.

          "I'm willing to bet I could fuck up an emu real good, if I got the drop on the bastard."
          -- KC Elbows, my new hero.
          Monkey Ninjas! Attack!

          Comment


            #6
            cyrijil, ever heard of "pre-war" Judo? How about Kosen Judo? This subject has been played out so many times I thought you'd have known better. Then again, you're a n00b.

            ~
            danny

            "All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

            Comment


              #7
              Danny, zip it with the n00b bullshit, please. I'm getting into delete mode with some of it, actually.

              That goes for everyone who's doing it, by the way.

              "I'm willing to bet I could fuck up an emu real good, if I got the drop on the bastard."
              -- KC Elbows, my new hero.
              Monkey Ninjas! Attack!

              Comment


                #8
                I read an article recently where a judo guy (3 degree black belt or something; not a beginner) was going on and on about how DIFFICULT it is when your opponent goes into a turtle (4 point) and how hard it is to fight them and I was thinking "You give a decent BJJ your back like that and they're licking their lips and purring. That's where they WANT you to be."
                I'm probably putting this in the wrong context but try pulling off a submission, even with rear mount, in 5 seconds. Because that's how much time they have to do it in competition. Is it ass? Yes, it's very ass, but what can you do right? We've already talked about the differences between judo and BJJ ad nauseum, but I suppose anything is better than another grappling vs. striking thread...wait, no, this is just as bad.

                ~
                danny

                "All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

                Comment


                  #9
                  I don't care what danny says. It still does not affect my post. BJJ, Judo, Aikido all come from an earlier art. The differences which make up these systems occur because each section has decided to focus on a certain area.

                  Please don't spurt nonsense. Reply to my post and what you disagree with. Did not BJJ and Judo derive from an earlier art? And did not this earlier art derive from somewhere else? And why would not now Judo and BJJ seek to refine useful tactics out of each other?

                  -----------------------------------------------------------
                  "you think you're tough? try riding on the back of a moto in downtown Phnom Penh"---jzf

                  "i left my heart in laos, but my wallet in cambodia
                  There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    JKDChick: what he was probably referring to is the difficulty of attacking a turtle under judo competition rules. Typically if there is no movement (i.e. 1 person locks down hard, and teh other guy is working to break the lockdown and get a better position.) you've only got about 15 seconds or less to get it done. Even a true beginner can lock down in turtle for 15 seconds. Under judo rules which basically got raped by the IOC for being boring, so the IOC forced judo to adopt more TV friendly rules or get bumped from the olympics, require movement for the fighters to stay on the ground.

                    This is why the competition groundwork is crap in Judo and many high level judoka don't even bother. Pretty much the only way to win by submission in a judo tourney is if the other guy is going for a submission on you. Then you actually get some time to work.

                    HOWEVER, any of the judoka who give a shit about the art MORE than the sport are really fucking nasty on the ground. Because Judo emphasises fast newaza you generally won't see a judoka pull guard and chill for 20 minutes. They go batshit insane on the ground and a lot of BJJ guys tend to get freaked since they are taught to relax. Also if you are fighting a judoka on the ground, odds are that you got to the ground after hiting it at mach 5 from some fucked up throw. This makes defending pretty damn hard. e.g. the gracie v. kimura fight. Kimura didn't get really into the ground work against helio until he'd fucked him up with throw after throw after throw. BOTH helio and kimura said that if the mat hadn't been a little too soft, then Helio never would have stayed conscious long enough to get choked out and his arm broken.

                    So yes I agree that many many judoka don't spend near enough time on the ground, but don't bet on that if you are up against one.


                    BTW I do both judo and BJJ and I've learned things in judo that the BJJ guys are like "WTF WAS THAT!?" and vice versa. Of course the transfer works more from judo to bjj since most of the bjj stuff I learn is illegal in judo.

                    ---------
                    Shut up and train

                    Comment


                      #11
                      oh and Jack Smack: You tend to not see a lot of judoka compete in MMA and NHB because they don't want to. They already have a VERY LARGE and very well respect sport outlet. Anyone who is very serious about judo is looking to the olympics, not the UFC.

                      BJJ is relatively new art that actually GOT its competitive start in nhb type matches. Therefore the highest goal of the BJJer is to follow in Helio's footsteps and fight MMA. Its a difference in what matter to the athlete in charge. I'd be willing to bet that judoka who want to do NHB wind up going to BJJ.

                      ---------
                      Shut up and train

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Read the information on the www.bjj.org website. Maeda was a judoka through and through. He taught judo to the Gracies. Those are the facts. I'm probably nitpicking, so I won't say anything else.

                        I take judo and BJJ, so yes, there are obvious holes in both arts that require filling, which is what I'm doing.

                        ~
                        danny

                        "All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Someone getting in the "ass rape position" can be a pain in a competition, but is nothing to freak out about. To pull of a decent submission in 15 seconds when the person is turtled well is next to impossible.
                          Cyrijl, you really don't know what you are talking about. Go back and look through past topics to see where this has been discussed Ad Naseum.
                          Bottom line is BJJ came from Judo, wich came from JJ.
                          And that's when I figured out that tears couldn't make somebody who was dead alive again. There's another thing to learn about tears, they can't make somebody who doesn't love you any more love you again. It's the same with prayers. I wonder how much of their lives people waste crying and praying to God. If you ask me, the devil makes more sense than God does. I can at least see why people would want him around. It's good to have somebody to blame for the bad stuff they do. Maybe God's there because people get scared of all the bad stuff they do. They figure that God and the Devil are always playing this game of tug-of-war game with them. And they never know which side they're gonna wind up on. I guess that tug-of-war idea explains how sometimes, even when people try to do something good, it still turns out bad.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            They go batshit insane on the ground and a lot of BJJ guys tend to get freaked since they are taught to relax.
                            Hah, that's good stuff.

                            ~
                            danny

                            "All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

                            Comment


                              #15
                              greese1,
                              Shit, you call it the "ass rape position" too? Fuck yeah! My British sensei said, "If you go into a turtle, I like to call that the 'ass rape position'." and everyone was scared after that. It's too bad that my sensei fucking rocks at reversals from the bottom of backmount. Bastard. Either way, though we know it's good for competition, in training, we try to avoid it like the plague.

                              And Fisting Kittens is correct.

                              Hehe, it seems like the judo contingent is out in full force.

                              ~
                              danny

                              "All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

                              Comment

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