Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Grappling, Striking, and Self Defence

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Grappling, Striking, and Self Defence

    This was going to be a response to today's grapplers vs. strikers thread, but I decided that it warrants a separate topic.

    Here's my opinion on the matter.

    I think that tunelling on self defence when talking about martial arts is somewhat silly.And before you jump on me for saying this, let me explain what I say so.

    I firmly believe that 95% of self defence is in perventive measures. If you want to be safe, live in a good neighboughood, don't walk around in seedy areas alone, don't go to rowdy bars, don't become involved with the wrong people, don't be rude to strangers, if someone is rude to you - deescalate the situation. If you follow the above rules, the chances of you having to defend yourself are negligible. I have been in my share of fights and self defence situations, and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM COULD HAVEE BEEN AVOIDED. I, for one reason or another, wound up in these situations due to CHOICES or POOR DESCISIONS. So if I was going to teach a "self defence seminar" I would not do any martial arts or physical training at all - I think it applies to such a small part of the whose that is "self defence" that I wouldn't waste my time on it.

    Now, even to cover the small percentage of potential self defence situations, I would not advocate conventional martial arts training. I would suggest getting a liscence to carry and learning how to use a handgun for places where it is an option, and some sort of Filipino knife fighting if you can't carry a firearm. Both offer a better and faster way to defend yourself against armed assailants. And if you think about it, the confrontations that can not be avoided by doing what I talked about in the previous paragraph are quite likely to involve a weapon. Now, I'm not saying that Martial Arts training would not give you an edge in these situations, but in our busy lives we have to proiritise, and weapons training will get you there faster.

    So, I firmly believe that talking about "self defence" in all of these striking/grappling debates is a waste of time. What needs to be talked about is FIGHTING. I am not training to learn how to defend myself. To be honest, I am not too worried about defending myself - I tend to avoid these situations in the first place (Now a few years ago, it was another story). I am learning how to FIGHT.

    I think it has been shown that in order to be an efficient fighter, you have to learn all ranges, and those include striking and grappling. Pure strikers are not going to be very effective against a well rounded martial artist, and neither are pure grapplers. If you ever want to be good, you have to do both. And this has been proven time and time again by thousands upon thousands of hours of taped fights and challenges. It is not open for debate - it's a fucking fact.

    So, to paraphrase someone's signature (don't remember who's) shut up and train.
    You say what about my rice?

    #2
    That would be Fisting Kitten's sig I believe...


    guns are for losers

    --
    Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
    (And my two creaky knees...)
    Surfing Facebook at work? Spread the good word by adding us on Facebook today! https://www.facebook.com/Bullshido

    https://www.instagram.com/bullshido/

    Comment


      #3
      Yeah, losers that kill people.

      ~
      danny

      "All this talk about 'newbies' is making me a little nervous. You guys don't have any sort of secret hazing initiation involving wooden paddles and me screaming 'Thank you sir, may I have another?!' do you?"

      Comment


        #4
        "if someone is rude to you - deescalate the situation"

        Sorry, I live in Texas. If someone smarts off to me, I have to fuck them up (part of the culture).

        Same thing with Pizdoff living in Canada. If someone even looks at him funny, he has to kick the living shit out of them.

        You can't make a man by standing a sheep on its hindlegs but if you get a group of men together you can create a herd of sheep.

        Comment


          #5
          Yeah we Canadians don't like nobody messing with our snow and stuff guy!




          --
          Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
          (And my two creaky knees...)
          Surfing Facebook at work? Spread the good word by adding us on Facebook today! https://www.facebook.com/Bullshido

          https://www.instagram.com/bullshido/

          Comment


            #6
            "Sorry, I live in Texas. If someone smarts off to me, I have to fuck them up (part of the culture)."

            Oh sure, but that's not self defence anymore, is it :)
            You say what about my rice?

            Comment


              #7
              now you are confusing that with a sport....

              :)

              --
              Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
              (And my two creaky knees...)
              Surfing Facebook at work? Spread the good word by adding us on Facebook today! https://www.facebook.com/Bullshido

              https://www.instagram.com/bullshido/

              Comment


                #8
                Yes it is. I'm defending my honor . . . Oh wait, I don't have any!

                You can't make a man by standing a sheep on its hindlegs but if you get a group of men together you can create a herd of sheep.

                Comment


                  #9
                  that wouldn't work on the street

                  --
                  Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
                  (And my two creaky knees...)
                  Surfing Facebook at work? Spread the good word by adding us on Facebook today! https://www.facebook.com/Bullshido

                  https://www.instagram.com/bullshido/

                  Comment


                    #10
                    HAP,

                    I totally agree with 99% of what you are saying, and I might be misreading the 1% I don't agree with.

                    Please bear with me as a partake in the Bullishido tradition of snipping little parts of your post, taking them out of their intended context, and ripping them to shreads.

                    "So if I was going to teach a "self defence seminar" I would not do any martial arts or physical training at all - I think it applies to such a small part of the whose that is "self defence" that I wouldn't waste my time on it."

                    Good self-defense classes do teach awareness, risk assesment, and situtation defusual, but like everything else good in life they don't focus completely on one thing. Just like all the fight training in the world can't gurantee you will win a fight, all of the diplomatic, risk assement, and awareness skills can't assure that you won't find yourself in physical combat.

                    Good self-defense training finds a happy middle ground where it can provide the most help, in the most situtations. Focusing too strongly on one aspect leaves the person unprepared for anything else, trying to spread stuff too far out can leave the person unprepared for everything. You have to find the balance.

                    That brings me to your next statement I took issue with.

                    "Now, even to cover the small percentage of potential self defence situations, I would not advocate conventional martial arts training. I would suggest getting a liscence to carry and learning how to use a handgun for places where it is an option, and some sort of Filipino knife fighting if you can't carry a firearm."

                    By stating this, I think you have taken two opposite extremes and mistook balance for completness. If you are going to carry a gun or a knife, you better damn well be prepared to use it, and use it to kill. They are much less effective and much more dangerous too yourself, if they are used for any other purpose.


                    This whole self-defesne thing, isn't a swtich, where the only fight you can't always walk away from or avoid is one that requires deadly force. It's more like a knob, dial, or a graphic equalizer where you set different things to different levels to have the best possible outcome.








                    Edited by - Punisher on May 12 2003 16:42:24

                    Comment


                      #11
                      argh, try using quotes like "" when you quote a guy



                      --
                      Hard work, Patience, Dedication.
                      (And my two creaky knees...)
                      Surfing Facebook at work? Spread the good word by adding us on Facebook today! https://www.facebook.com/Bullshido

                      https://www.instagram.com/bullshido/

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Or make it really tiny like everyone else does.

                        --A poor band player I was, but now I am crocodile king. --
                        Click To Get My Free Training Newsletter... Do It NOW!


                        "You all just got fucking owned.";
                        "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

                        - The Wastrel

                        Comment


                          #13
                          [s]Sorry,

                          Bad form on my part, I usually do put quotes, or atleast pay more attention to my spacing to let things stand out. I guess I've been getting lazy.

                          Thanks of the kick in the ass, it won't happen again.[/s]

                          Uh...., I mean I did use quotes, just look at the post! You guys need to get your eyes checked!





                          Edited by - Punisher on May 12 2003 16:44:46

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Punisher: I actually think that we pretty much agree. Let me clarify my thoughts on this matter.

                            I think we agree that the vast majority of self defence situations can be either avoided in the first place, or handled non violently. I, for one, have never in my life been in a fight or a slef defence situation that I could not have avoided. And I have been in a fair number of fights. Therefore, if I wanted to teach self defence, I would concentrate on risk assesment and avoidance first and foremost (don't go to "bad" places, don't associate with "bad" people, especially drunk or high "bad" people, especially if you're drunk or high). I think this covers 95% of all self defence. I, for example, have never been in a bar fight. This is because I don't go to bars where fight break out, pure and simple.

                            The next most importan thing in self defence, once again IMHO, is verbal skills. A lot of people don't know how to handle verbal confrontations, and thus are forced to deal with violence. Pretty much all the fights I've been in (besides getting jumped a couple of times) could have been pervented had I chosen to deescalate the situation. The fact that I did not, takes them out of the realm of self defence.

                            Now, with all of the above, we are left with potential violent encounters that could not be avoided or deescalated. I have, personally, never been in one, but some of my friends have. This is where martial arts or weapons training comes in.

                            If you look at the big picture though, martial arts training is ***extremely*** inefficient way to learn self defence - it only applies to about 5% of self defence situations at best (I actually think it's lower than that) and is not very effective. That is, in order to defend yourself from an agressive assailant, who is likely to be armed and experienced in this sort of thing, you have to spend years and years studying. And even then, you could get gutted and not know what hit you.

                            So, if you are giving a seminar, would you teach risk assesment and avoidance, something that can be taught to just about anyone in a day, and applies to 95% os self defence situations.

                            Or martial arts techniques, that can not be learned in one day, apply to 5% of self defence situations, and with a very low probability at that?

                            Now about weapons and deadly force. If you're confronted by someone, chances are they will back right off when you draw your firearm. And if they don't back off, then they're a fucking psychopath, and you're justified to defend yourself. And unlike MA, you can actually teach domeone to be more or less effective with a gun in a couple of days.
                            You say what about my rice?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Punisher: I actually think that we pretty much agree. Let me clarify my thoughts on this matter.

                              I think we agree that the vast majority of self defence situations can be either avoided in the first place, or handled non violently. I, for one, have never in my life been in a fight or a slef defence situation that I could not have avoided. And I have been in a fair number of fights. Therefore, if I wanted to teach self defence, I would concentrate on risk assesment and avoidance first and foremost (don't go to "bad" places, don't associate with "bad" people, especially drunk or high "bad" people, especially if you're drunk or high). I think this covers 95% of all self defence. I, for example, have never been in a bar fight. This is because I don't go to bars where fight break out, pure and simple.

                              The next most importan thing in self defence, once again IMHO, is verbal skills. A lot of people don't know how to handle verbal confrontations, and thus are forced to deal with violence. Pretty much all the fights I've been in (besides getting jumped a couple of times) could have been pervented had I chosen to deescalate the situation. The fact that I did not, takes them out of the realm of self defence.

                              Now, with all of the above, we are left with potential violent encounters that could not be avoided or deescalated. I have, personally, never been in one, but some of my friends have. This is where martial arts or weapons training comes in.

                              If you look at the big picture though, martial arts training is ***extremely*** inefficient way to learn self defence - it only applies to about 5% of self defence situations at best (I actually think it's lower than that) and is not very effective. That is, in order to defend yourself from an agressive assailant, who is likely to be armed and experienced in this sort of thing, you have to spend years and years studying. And even then, you could get gutted and not know what hit you.

                              So, if you are giving a seminar, would you teach risk assesment and avoidance, something that can be taught to just about anyone in a day, and applies to 95% os self defence situations.

                              Or martial arts techniques, that can not be learned in one day, apply to 5% of self defence situations, and with a very low probability at that?

                              Now about weapons and deadly force. If you're confronted by someone, chances are they will back right off when you draw your firearm. And if they don't back off, then they're a fucking psychopath, and you're justified to defend yourself. And unlike MA, you can actually teach domeone to be more or less effective with a gun in a couple of days.
                              You say what about my rice?

                              Comment

                              Collapse

                              Edit this module to specify a template to display.

                              Working...
                              X