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**Cakemaster** · 4/12/2006 3:27am,

Everyone knows the best attack EVER is strapping a tactical nuke to your head, and headbutting the other guy into oblivion.

**danno** · 4/12/2006 4:08am,

i'm pretty sure this was posted about 8 months ago.

it takes advantage of womens insecurities, and teaches them techniques which are useless.

= please hairy man, please armbar/pound the shit out of me!

**alex** · 4/12/2006 4:51am,

see what happens in that picture is the guy rears back a bit then slams his fist into her face

**danno** · 4/12/2006 5:59am,

yes, simply sitting up would take his face out of range of her hands. then it's clobbering time.

don't wanna mess up her pretty face? she looks about 30kg lighter than him. even with some grappling skill she has little hope from this position. he could probably just hold her wrists without too much effort and do as he pleases.

i personally have no doubt that i could control her easily from there, especially taking into account her size and training.

fooling this girl into thinking she could handle herself in this situation is a crime.

i once met this girl and after some chit chat i found out she did TKD. i'm generally pretty polite and wasn't going to start telling her that what she did was bollocks. she started telling me this story about one of the female black belts from her school who had been sexually assaulted.

3 guys beat her, dragged her around by the hair and raped her. she was helpless. then this girl tells me "they threw her around like a ragdoll, we were just shocked... i mean, she's a blackbelt!!"

then she went on to say that their instructor got someone in to teach them some grappling. for all i know it was hapkido.

it's hard enough for a decent fighter to take on a single opponent - taking on 3 is another story altogether. and here we have girls thinking that one woman (who trains in TKD no less) can take on 3 males who are probably all much larger than her.

what a scam.

**Askari** · 4/12/2006 5:59am,

Cleavage=Good Marketing.

Seriously though, how do you get women involved in more hard Self-Defence? One club I trained at used the light contact-Kickboxing program to get them hooked then moved them into the Jiu-Jitsu/BJJ/MMA program after about 6 months.

This looks like his lite sell hook to get people involved at a low impact level.

But he's a Karate guy, so who really knows.

**sdave** · 4/12/2006 7:48am,

Originally posted by Askari

Cleavage=Good Marketing.

Yup... Heard that walk-in traffic went up dramatically at a friend's school after he hired a Hooter's girl for the front desk.

Aside from the obvious, though, girls also like to train where there are other girls...

Originally posted by Askari

Seriously though, how do you get women involved in more hard Self-Defence? One club I trained at used the light contact-Kickboxing program to get them hooked then moved them into the Jiu-Jitsu/BJJ/MMA program after about 6 months.

It's a good way to ease them in. With one exception (who was already into BJJ) every girl that I've gotten involved with MMA started with Muay Thai, presented to them as "kickboxing".

Personally, I've found it easier in many cases to take them from kickboxing to Vale Tudo first before going to a pure grappling class.

D

**sdave** · 4/12/2006 8:26am,

Originally posted by danno

i once met this girl and after some chit chat i found out she did TKD. i'm generally pretty polite and wasn't going to start telling her that what she did was bollocks. she started telling me this story about one of the female black belts from her school who had been sexually assaulted.

3 guys beat her, dragged her around by the hair and raped her. she was helpless. then this girl tells me "they threw her around like a ragdoll, we were just shocked... i mean, she's a blackbelt!!"

Assuming you're not talking about the same girl (you're in OZ, after all) there was a similar incident here in Texas a few years ago... Might have been in the Austin area. TKD BB was assaulted and raped. I have NO idea if the situation would have been diffferent had she been a proficient grappler. However, being grabbed and taken to the ground seem to be inherently grappling situations... It's possible that she'd have been better prepared.

Originally posted by danno

fooling this girl into thinking she could handle herself in this situation is a crime.

Putting a girl in this position is a horrible crime and it's probably a big factor in many girls' decision to take up MA, but you're absolutely right, fooling her into thinking "she could handle herself" is nearly as criminal.

[Mild rant]

Again, not knowing the specifics of the situation, but speaking in general, it's possible that a girl who is awarded points and trophies for kicking at another girl of similar size and skill while wearing protective gear and secure in the knowledge that she won't be punched in the face might have a bit more of a skewed sense of her own capabilities than would a girl who spends her training time being choked, armbarred, leglocked and otherwise manhandled by guys that outweigh her by 100lbs.

[/Mild Rant]

**Fantasy Warrior** · 4/12/2006 8:34am,

The guy who sells that course runs All-Krotty forum ( http://www.all-karate.com/forums/ ) and also his own less frequented forum ( http://www.lyon-karate.com/forums/ ). Remember, he has trained the Australian SAS so he must be the SD uber-expert right... Actually my being banned from All-Karate was immediately after I posted there asking about the 7 most effective moves....

**danno** · 4/12/2006 8:58am,

Originally posted by kickcatcher

Remember, he has trained the Australian SAS

WHAT?! HA! HA...HA!

that's crazy.

i have just sent an email to one of the adresses on the site asking if he did actually teach the SAS.

**danno** · 4/12/2006 9:00am,

**Cymro** · 4/12/2006 10:10am,

Shit like this absolutely disgusts me.

People who teach shit like this do women an incredible disservice by giving them a false sense of security in addition to the idea that there's a quick, easy way to deal with an attacker.

I'm 6'3" 240lbs. I've been training most of my life. I worked as a bouncer for years. Sometimes it's hard for me to deal with your average drunk asshole. What the hell is someone going to do with the "7 most effective self defense techniques" after reading the book once? We had a women's self defense program at my Uni. I knew the instructer casually. Your average thug would have taken her apart.

When the hell will people get serious about their own safety?

**Fantasy Warrior** · 4/12/2006 10:18am,

Originally posted by danno

WHAT?! HA! HA...HA!

that's crazy.

i have just sent an email to one of the adresses on the site asking if he did actually teach the SAS.

Yep, he says it here:

I have 30 years of continuous training and teaching experience in both effective self defense and martial arts. I have also studied several self defense systems and martial arts such as Krav Maga and Jujitsu. I have trained and continue to train with martial arts grand masters and have conducted seminars and training sessions with law enforcement agencies and the military (including the SAS!).

I have worked in dangerous security roles for most of my life, so you can trust that I know what I'm talking about.

Australian SAS are highly regarded, but quite why that proves his 7 most effective moves are The 7 most effective moves beats me. I cannot comment on what he teaches on the courses (he has alluded to it being far more than just 7 moves and that the pictures aren't representative), although those pics look incredibly dubious, but his marketing is way out IMO.

**Cymro** · 4/12/2006 10:21am,

I have a hard time imagining that the H2H combat techniques of Australia's redoubtable Special Forces are the same as those used by your average Jane/Joe trying to deal with a mugger or assailent.

Of course I've never been Aus. SAS.

**Fantasy Warrior** · 4/12/2006 10:23am,

There's a thread about the 7 most effective moves on his forum: http://www.all-karate.com/forums/ind...?showtopic=797
Terry says...

7most.com is a website for a self defence ebook I wrote the sales of which help
to keep this site and lyon-karate.com plus my other M/A sites up and running.

Although as Angela has correctly pointed out wrist grabs are more common in attacks on women than most people think.

And the ability to get out of the many different types of wrist,arm and clothes grabs effectively is well worth anyone learning.

When taking the pictures for the book in order to show a defence you must have
an attack to begin with and that's where the wrist lock came into the photo.

The book does not go into wrist locks and escapes at all,instead it covers in simple to follow instructions and photographs a combination of strikes and target areas that anyone male or female big or small can easily learn and apply in a self defence situation with no prior training.

--------------------

Sensei Terry Lyon
5th Dan Chief Instructor T.O.G.K.A (W.A.)
Traditional Okinawan Goju Ryu Karate Do Association

Make your own minds up as to whether that is a good explantation of why the photos are so unrealistic.

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