ARAKAN in Brisbane, Australia - a MA from Burma.

[BKR]

Hello everyone.

I'm from the Gold Coast and have been doing Arakan for about three years now. I usually train in a group lesson once a week and do one-on-one privates when I can afford it (yes, it's expensive!). I actually found this thread while trying to research the history of Arakan myself.

I have personally met the chief instructor Rob Kyaw more than a few times and had the opportunity to do a couple of group seminars taken by him. I haven't graded to any belts yet so if you want to ask me anything about it from a below yellow belt perspective then go ahead and ask and I'll be more than happy to answer as best I can. Outside of Arakan I have no experience in any other martial arts aside from what you see in the movies, so I won't be able to make comparisons, unfortunately. But hopefully I can address some areas where people would be rightfully skeptical.

I've (thankfully) got no idea on its effectiveness in a one-on-one bar fight, let alone with multiple attackers, but quite a few times a student has been able to defeat one attacker very quickly. One thing I have learned is that fights are never 'perfect' and that you can't ever get a clean strike in like you've been trained to, so me trying to defend Arakan as a street defense technique is pointless because I've never had to use it. In a perfect world your opponent would respectfully bow to you before glassing you in the face like a true warrior, right?

Regarding the history of Arakan, despite my best google-fu I cannot verify it myself, but I do know that it does come from an old Rakhine art. As best as I can tell, it may have been adapted to be more relevant from a modern self defence point of view, which to me is reasonable since we're not defending a royal family from an opposing military force, but by how much it has changed from its original form I don't know. Rob actually travels back to Burma a few times a year to train with the people who trained him.

My personal thoughts on the art itself: Yeah, it's a fast, adaptable technique. Very fluid. The amount of things you can do with a limited (for me) tool set is quite cool. I've been able to glimpse some of the stuff that the more experienced students and instructors can get up to and it blows me away. At my level, I've been taught a fairly basic array of strikes, grabs, throws, kicks and forwards-backwards movement, with the occasional more advanced technique sprinkled in. Once you get up to orange and green belt level then the things they've been teaching you get thrown out the window and you start to learn how to break the rules that made the foundation of what you learned up to then. The advanced stuff is way beyond my comprehension or expertise so don't expect me to be able to explain it at all!

The main takeaway that I've had form Arakan is that everyone's on their own personal journey of becoming better at something, and I really appreciate how raw and immediate any feedback is from the instructors. It has brought a lot of good people up out of some really dark places and made them better human beings, and for me it allows me to walk with my shoulders back and my head up high, which is what it's all about, isn't it?

Now I've read this post about fourfty-hundred times before posting to make sure I don't sound like a complete moron, understanding that I've come into this forum full of very real and very experienced martial arts enthusiasts from a wide range of backgrounds. Hopefully I can answer some questions.

Responding to what I bolded in our original post.

Complete and utter bullshit. And I'm not sorry to be blunt. You need to pull your head out of your ass.

This is where I'm coming from.

I've been doing and teaching Judo for 35 years. The fundamentals of ANY sport or physical activity (or anything, really, be it purely intellectual or mostly physical) are critical to later success. Fundamentals are NEVER tossed out...if they are, then they are not fundamental to the activity, by definition.

If you accurately represent what you are being told by your instructors about basics/fundamentals, then they are using that line of bull as a marketing/retention ploy to keep you paying.

I am not sure how long it takes to get an orange or green belt in Arkan.

In Judo, for a young healthy adult, training at least 3 times a week (2 hours at a time), and competing, that would take at least 3 years to reach green belt (sankyu). And that person would not have come anywhere near mastering or absorbing the fundamentals.

Essentially, what you state goes against the fundamentals of learning anything.

[goodlun]

you start to learn how to break the rules that made the foundation of what you learned up to then.

I know others have already commented on this, but at least in the arts I have done what happens is you don't learn to break the rules. You start to understand the rules betters. You understand why the rules are their better, you understand the situations better. At the beginning you only really learn part of the "rule" the easy part, the part you can manage under duress. As you progress you get to understand what the rule really is. However at no point do you ever "break the rules".You should never be throwing away fundamentals.

[rarewhiteape]

Hmm. Perhaps you've misinterpreted what I wrote, or maybe I wasn't explaining it properly. Bear in mind I'm not even a yellow belt yet.

The way it was explained to me, almost verbatim, is that first you learn the rules, then you learn how to break the rules. Of course the foundations still exist, you need to know them so that you can bend them to your will.

For example, early on we're taught to have a very solid, stable, yet relaxed stance. Feet are shoulder width apart with knees bent slightly to form a nice A-frame. All the power comes from having that locked to the ground while the waist does the work. Pretty basic.

Then at green belt level they're starting to move diagonally or in cross steps and striking with the centre of gravity in different positions, etc. and getting super creative with what they can do. Again, it's well beyond my level so don't expect me to explain it too clearly.

[goodlun]

Again, it's well beyond my level so don't expect me to explain it too clearly.

Not to be an ass, but maybe you shouldn't try and explain it if you lack the expertise to do so.
You also lack the expertise to really stand up for this art.
Have you done any sort of cross training? Have you boxed or kick boxed? Do you have a frame of reference in order to compare this art against?
Don't get me wrong you should engage in conversation, I don't think only experts should talk about it, but you need to have your eyes open to the fact that you lack the base of knowledge make assertions about the art.
I want to repeat again, its healthy to want to engage in dialog about it, it really is, and I encourage you to do so.
I also encourage you to go to a Boxing gym and try a few classes.

[It is Fake]

No, we aren't misinterpreting your comment, it is bullshit. You do realize, if you are taught properly your power generation doesn't change the angles and directions do. So, no, you aren't breaking rules, you are applying them in a different manner. This is why beginners shouldn't defend or explain their art. You may have, which I doubt, misunderstood what they stated. Yet, since you aren't the first to say things like this, I am going to say they sold you some bullshit.

I watched advanced people, while I was training as a beginner, the techniques were harder, but I understood the basics even at my lower level. So, I could tell the power generations, the torque and other things. I may not understand the angles, the exact timing and other ADVANCED strategies used for these techniques. In other words, I understood the basics of what I saw, but I could not apply it.

[BKR]

Hmm. Perhaps you've misinterpreted what I wrote, or maybe I wasn't explaining it properly. Bear in mind I'm not even a yellow belt yet.

The way it was explained to me, almost verbatim, is that first you learn the rules, then you learn how to break the rules. Of course the foundations still exist, you need to know them so that you can bend them to your will.

For example, early on we're taught to have a very solid, stable, yet relaxed stance. Feet are shoulder width apart with knees bent slightly to form a nice A-frame. All the power comes from having that locked to the ground while the waist does the work. Pretty basic.

Then at green belt level they're starting to move diagonally or in cross steps and striking with the centre of gravity in different positions, etc. and getting super creative with what they can do. Again, it's well beyond my level so don't expect me to explain it too clearly.

I can only go by what you write.

But what you say they say does sound sexy, doesn't it? Breaking the "rules"...

It's not breaking rules, it's learning more complicated stuff in a step-by-step manner. Maybe...

I watched some videos on their website...

[HarshMallow]

Hello everyone.

I'm from the Gold Coast and have been doing Arakan for about three years now.

Surely there are BJJ and boxing gyms in that part of the world, no?

I haven't graded to any belts yet so ...

Then it is not too late for you :-)

My personal thoughts on the art itself: Yeah, it's a fast, adaptable technique. Very fluid. The amount of things you can do with a limited (for me) tool set is quite cool. I've been able to glimpse some of the stuff that the more experienced students and instructors can get up to and it blows me away. At my level, I've been taught a fairly basic array of strikes, grabs, throws, kicks and forwards-backwards movement, with the occasional more advanced technique sprinkled in. Once you get up to orange and green belt level then the things they've been teaching you get thrown out the window and you start to learn how to break the rules that made the foundation of what you learned up to then. The advanced stuff is way beyond my comprehension or expertise so don't expect me to be able to explain it at all!

What is an example of an advanced technique, and why would it work better than something you've already learned (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that what you've already learned isn't totally useless)?

... and for me it allows me to walk with my shoulders back and my head up high, which is what it's all about, isn't it?

No. Training a martial art is about learning how to physically dominate other human beings. The boost to self-confidence is a side effect of that experience. It is derived from one of two things: delusion or competence.

Arakan seems to offer delusion. If you seek competence go train an art that lets you pressure-test your techniques.

Obligatory aliveness reference:

[rarewhiteape]

Not to be an ass, but maybe you shouldn't try and explain it if you lack the expertise to do so.
You also lack the expertise to really stand up for this art.

I agree with you, and that's a completely fair call.

Have you done any sort of cross training? Have you boxed or kick boxed? Do you have a frame of reference in order to compare this art against?

Actually, yes. A little bit. Before each lesson part of the warmup is a few minutes of boxing. It's to help set your brain and get you used to being fed punches to the head, and also to get the body moving and the blood pumping. We used to do free boxing until one student had his jaw broken at the start of the year. Now we're limited to drills against pads. It's easier of course, but less dangerous.

We get a little bit of boxing coaching. The instructors will say, move your feet like this, or dodge and roll like that, etc, but it's very brief. They mostly want to see us NOT doing Arakan style with plenty of intensity before we go onto the rest of the lesson.

Don't get me wrong you should engage in conversation, I don't think only experts should talk about it, but you need to have your eyes open to the fact that you lack the base of knowledge make assertions about the art.
I want to repeat again, its healthy to want to engage in dialog about it, it really is, and I encourage you to do so.
I also encourage you to go to a Boxing gym and try a few classes.

Well I guess part of the reason I posted here was to learn something new as well. I am a complete n00b at martial arts, and I've definitely taken an interest in looking at other styles as well.

[rarewhiteape]

Obligatory aliveness reference:

I like that a lot. It's a good way of explaining the difference between 'perfect world' drills and realistic scenarios. It reminds me of this:

I first saw this video years and years ago and I've been mindful of it ever since.

[BackFistMonkey]

Actually, yes. A little bit. Before each lesson part of the warmup is a few minutes of boxing. It's to help set your brain and get you used to being fed punches to the head, and also to get the body moving and the blood pumping. We used to do free boxing until one student had his jaw broken at the start of the year. Now we're limited to drills against pads. It's easier of course, but less dangerous.

Training injuries happen.
Usually very rarely and it should never change the methodology of your art. By that I mean if someone dislocates their jaw or shoulder or flattens their nose with a bad throw/fall in your Judo club, the Judo club does not stop throwing. When a kickboxer or karateka breaks a forearm or shin or loses a tooth or cracks an orbital... the gym or dojo doesn't change it's rules and only strike pads and cardio air punching. They keep training fighters who fight. When someone pops a knee or elbow or a rib in BJJ it doesn't suddenly become nothing but flow drills or wrestling dummies.

What you are describing is bad training being excused as "too deadly". Plenty of Dojos and boxing and kickboxing gyms punch and kick each other safely and produce real fighters.

We get a little bit of boxing coaching. The instructors will say, move your feet like this, or dodge and roll like that, etc, but it's very brief. They mostly want to see us NOT doing Arakan style with plenty of intensity before we go onto the rest of the lesson.

You have a boxing coach telling you roll to avoid striking?
Am I reading that right?

[ermghoti]

Actually, yes. A little bit. Before each lesson part of the warmup is a few minutes of boxing. It's to help set your brain and get you used to being fed punches to the head, and also to get the body moving and the blood pumping.

Having somebody who doesn't know how to box, pretend to box with you in a halfhearted fashion, is not cross training. Go take a boxing class.

[goodlun]

Having somebody who doesn't know how to box, pretend to box with you in a halfhearted fashion, is not cross training. Go take a boxing class.

One like is not enough for this.

This is something that needs to be said over and over again for a lot of arts.

Please go and take a boxing class its cheap, and certainly worth your time if nothing else but for being an insane work out.

[traversnz]

Hello everyone.

I'm from the Gold Coast and have been doing Arakan for about three years now. I usually train in a group lesson once a week and do one-on-one privates when I can afford it (yes, it's expensive!). I actually found this thread while trying to research the history of Arakan myself.

I have personally met the chief instructor Rob Kyaw more than a few times and had the opportunity to do a couple of group seminars taken by him. I haven't graded to any belts yet so if you want to ask me anything about it from a below yellow belt perspective then go ahead and ask and I'll be more than happy to answer as best I can. Outside of Arakan I have no experience in any other martial arts aside from what you see in the movies, so I won't be able to make comparisons, unfortunately. But hopefully I can address some areas where people would be rightfully skeptical.

I've (thankfully) got no idea on its effectiveness in a one-on-one bar fight, let alone with multiple attackers, but quite a few times a student has been able to defeat one attacker very quickly. One thing I have learned is that fights are never 'perfect' and that you can't ever get a clean strike in like you've been trained to, so me trying to defend Arakan as a street defense technique is pointless because I've never had to use it. In a perfect world your opponent would respectfully bow to you before glassing you in the face like a true warrior, right?

Regarding the history of Arakan, despite my best google-fu I cannot verify it myself, but I do know that it does come from an old Rakhine art. As best as I can tell, it may have been adapted to be more relevant from a modern self defence point of view, which to me is reasonable since we're not defending a royal family from an opposing military force, but by how much it has changed from its original form I don't know. Rob actually travels back to Burma a few times a year to train with the people who trained him.

My personal thoughts on the art itself: Yeah, it's a fast, adaptable technique. Very fluid. The amount of things you can do with a limited (for me) tool set is quite cool. I've been able to glimpse some of the stuff that the more experienced students and instructors can get up to and it blows me away. At my level, I've been taught a fairly basic array of strikes, grabs, throws, kicks and forwards-backwards movement, with the occasional more advanced technique sprinkled in. Once you get up to orange and green belt level then the things they've been teaching you get thrown out the window and you start to learn how to break the rules that made the foundation of what you learned up to then. The advanced stuff is way beyond my comprehension or expertise so don't expect me to be able to explain it at all!

The main takeaway that I've had form Arakan is that everyone's on their own personal journey of becoming better at something, and I really appreciate how raw and immediate any feedback is from the instructors. It has brought a lot of good people up out of some really dark places and made them better human beings, and for me it allows me to walk with my shoulders back and my head up high, which is what it's all about, isn't it?

Now I've read this post about fourfty-hundred times before posting to make sure I don't sound like a complete moron, understanding that I've come into this forum full of very real and very experienced martial arts enthusiasts from a wide range of backgrounds. Hopefully I can answer some questions.

What part of the Gold Coast are you on? I don't post much any more, but also live on the Gold Coast and can point in in the direction of some alternatives you can use as a comparison (and understand that if you actually want to learn martial arts, then Arakan is not an option).
Arakan as it is being sold is being targeted to people with no real martial arts training - the fact that you like it shows that it fits the bill for you. Martial arts should not be an intellectual exercise for at least the first few years - its telling that Arakan and other TMAs often have an extremely high talk / action ratio. You talked about boxing - are your instructors qualified to teach boxing? have you been taught the fundamentals such as how to even form a fist? If not, they shouldn't be "teaching" this. All they are really showing you is their lack of understanding of proven fighting methods, and giving you more reasons not to train there.
Let me know what part of the GC you're on, and what you're looking for - there are some great MT / BJJ / MMA places here. Hell, there's even judo / boxing / kyokushin - all of which I would recommend over Arakan (they are cheaper too).

[battlefields]

Arakan's ads are regularly showing up in my Facebook newsfeed at the moment. Has like 200+ comments on it with people all over Australia going "do you have teachers in Epping NSW?" and other places. Completely at odds with everything I have experienced about martial arts marketing on Facebook, as in this is my profession and I've never seen this amount of people asking if they can do a class or is there an instructor in [insert suburb here]. They're real suburbs, but it just stinks of bullshit.

Also, they're advertising to people (and getting responses from them as above) who are nowhere near where they operate. So they're either doing this to show they have 200+ comments showing "interest" in the martial art, or they need to fire whoever is doing their social media because they're advertising to people who will NEVER give them an ROI.

My experience tells me it is the former, the really real interest in Arakan from across the country.

[cualltaigh]

for me it allows me to walk with my shoulders back and my head up high, which is what it's all about, isn't it?

What, being fleeced of your hard-earned so that you can walk around with false-confidence yet retain the fighting ability of an unconscious toddler?

No, that is not what it is all about.