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Target Focus Training

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  • Taijineigong
    Sooo ... I hate to necro a thread like this, but even tho I am late to the TFT gang-rape I feel I may have a bit of an added contribution considering I *really* tried to give them a serious & dutiful look-see.

    I got both the DVDs ("Justified Lethal Force" & "Striking") ... giving them the benefit of the doubt (after having read this and the other TFT threads on here) ... and in the end felt really robbed of any value whatsoever.

    Ultimately, it would seem that the whole TFT package is some of the most brilliant MA *marketing* around ... but the actual effectiveness is downright dangerous to the practitioner (at best).

    I think that @Kungfoolss has pretty much murdered the whole "reflex arcs" line of thinking ... the shaky foundation upon which TFT's techniques are built.

    Here, summarized, are (IMO) the PRO's and CON's of the unique "art" of TFT (for those who don't want to read the whole thread ...):

    The PRO's of Target Focus Training...
    • They do list valid targets of attack, that, under ideal circumstances, can cause serious injury to an opponent.
    • They do describe (extremely basic) principles for striking to generate decent-to-significant power.
    • They do describe violent situations in a really nifty sounding pseudo-scientific way (asocial vs. anti-social vs. social etc)
    • They do present the information in an organized & easy-to-learn package.
    • They do make some valid points about real-life fights.

    The CON's of Target Focus Training...
    • They assume that you can cause an injury on anyone, anytime you strike them.
    • They assume that an injury will cause a set response in an opponent (the whole reflex arcs thing).
    • They assume that the opponent will rarely (if ever) defend themselves.
    • They assume that because of your super-awesome injury-causing powers, you will never need to defend yourself either.
    • They assume that with some basic pointers on *how* to strike + some uncreative sequences of *where* to strike, any MAist (or even complete n00b) will be instantly transformed into a hard-core killing machine.
    • They are totally in love with pseudo-science and out-of-context anatomical / physiological principles (which are often inaccurate, as this thread has amply indicated).

    While Target Focus Training really does have some incredible marketing (some of the best for I've seen in the MAs) ... they totally fall short on delivering the value the promise. In fact, in the cases of the MIL/LEO crowd they claim to train so awesomely ... I feel those guys would be better off never getting this nonsense into their head.

    I even tested some of TFT's dubious techniques on a 40-something year old <120 lbs woman (for kicks), and she was unmoved (and totally uninjured). So, I really hope no LEO is out in a dangerous situation and trying to use some rolly-polly elbow strike to a guy's saphenous nerve ... because it is at least as likely to get his face stomped as it is to "cause an injury" and "elicit an uncontrollable reflex arc" in the opponent.

    Probably it would be better to rename TFT "How a Bigger, Stronger Guy Can Hurt a Smaller, Weaker Guy by Hitting Vital Points on the Body & Getting Really Lucky Every Time He Ever Unleashes a Strike" ... but I guess that does not have the same ring to it.

    The whole way they train where the person getting struck keels over like a choreographed movie fight (simulating the injury + reflex arc response) is the worst ... as I'm sure everyone has seen someone get injured in a fight before w/o so much as batting an eye (much less bending halfway over & losing all focus on fighting).

    Be careful with this whole TFT bologna folks ... it is definitely >80% Bullshido.

    Hopefully that is a useful enough addition for a necro, considering I spent ~10 frackin hours watching the TFT DVD's ... really wanting it to at least have *some* value. Oh well.

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  • kuzushi1
    I think Larkin was a SEAL so he should know how to fight. The question is does he really teach how to fight or is it a marketing scam. He seems to be friends with Scott Sonnon the ultimate marketing hyper . His programs are very expensive, and he caters to the rich business types. On one of his DVDs I heard him say he is fit to look the part of an instructor, but he did not say his students must do the same. That lost major points with me. It seems he simply wants to appeal to as large a cross section as possible so that executives can convince themselves they are bad asses. He will tell them whatever it takes to make them sign on the dotted line.

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  • Idlesurfer
    I bought TFT striking. It provides a couple of basic pointers but relies on you getting very close to your attacker and delivering what I regard as very lucky shots to a square on assailant, who isn't moving or blocking. One of my junior amateur boxers with a basic idea of how to maintain a tight stance would fend off and counter a deadly TFT practitioner. Personally I trust my jab, my straight right and a couple of good head shaking hooks over stepping in close with my guard down. Any small non athletic person who thinks this system will protect her is deluded. Any half decent boxer, or other fighter would be much better placed to defend himself or herself. My wife and kids know how to protect their head and body with a basic stance and can pop out a hard jab to the throat. And then run away. And the real flaw is non fighters freeze. Any fighter drills, spars, works the bag, counters and defends. TFT IMHO gives a very one eyed over confidence. And I have had to pop a few gobshites on their arses which a snappy jab is plenty enough to do. And there was the back up of a 4 shot combination if the left hand didn't do the job.
    Last edited by Idlesurfer; 12/14/2011 4:21pm, .

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  • RamsHead
    Never mind, I am still a noob asshole who does not know a necro from a hole in the ground......
    Last edited by RamsHead; 1/30/2011 11:39am, .

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  • MajorReality
    Hmmmm. Not being a proponent of any particular form, I find some of this discussion a bit tiring. Nowhere is it mentioned that the person who attacks you for criminal intent is most likely NOT a trained martial artist. I have played in dojos and recognize the validity of being aware, in shape and having a reasonable level of skill. I have also been a combatent on 3 continents and in 7 countries. Whatever works at the moment is the answer, but if asked, I could not tell you that I used any particular form or even technique with any consistency. Nor did I ask any of my assailents what they had been trained in.


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    there are nay sayers the world over and especially internet the internet folks in lcd land.... not meant to be the "end all" holier than thou style of styles.... it is simply a viable solution to confronting asocial violence and that is merely using it in return ...even if its just picking up a rock and bashing a head in.... this forum is about bullshyt... yet there is alot of bullshyt floating around.... whatever other it "looks like" is irrelevant... i can walk in any gym,dojo or studio and they will not simplify the tool of violence such as tim and his guys... the principles in its contents are not aboout style and technique, only results....

    who cares what gossip or politics fall behind its inception.... it works becuase it dispells all the garbage that we are fed and gets down to that moment...

    if you actually pay attention you may learn something.... I was skeptical for five years...
    but training like this could have saved friends of mine had I or they know of it sooner...

    I considered myself 50% of the way there... after I ingested the TFT material I am at 100%

    I know now what I have always known deep down... but now I am empowered to the point that antisocial violence is easily avoidable or detained without physicality or egotistical escalation... thats the point... to toss out all the competitive social garbage and get to the point... am I ready and willing to kill this person and is now the time... if not walk away

    if you actually go out on a limb you will find more branches....

    i would never pay 1500.00 for a weekend seminar...ever...
    i would never pay 500.00 for a set of dvds....
    i have however subscribed to the free newsletter and in turn had the benefits of learning without paying as well as clearance prices on the training dvds...
    If you read soldier of fortune magazine he is giving his shyt away all the time...
    the works kit was 17.00 shipping thats it....joint breaking was 97.00.... the nuclear weapons was half off (150.00).....
    after 5 years i spent some money to see what it was and although I may do some things different... or train a little differently i learn what i need to know in terms of violence....

    no training can give you this scientifically proven detail.....

    yes larkin trained in scars first ....yes he was a head instructor...he possibly helped found the organization of scars.... i am almost positive he saw the flaws in its approach and delivery and decided to branch off and create tft.... tft is simplicity... not a bunch of glam and glitz like petersens organization....

    tft is simply focusing on targets and accessing them with the entire body weight and rotaion to injure the opponent causing trauma to the central nervous system with goal of shutting of the brain..... its not focused on this technique or that disarm...its not focused on the knife or gun... just thier brain and getting the results needed to shut it off...

    any martial person can find the validity in this stuff.... its not rocket science

    the social curtain is blinding you
    Last edited by BLACK LION; 9/10/2008 6:58pm, . Reason: added

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    .................................................. .......................
    Last edited by BLACK LION; 9/10/2008 6:57pm, .

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  • Partezan
    Originally posted by Hanniballistic
    I dealt with a crime victim once who was in a bar in the city centre minding hsi own business. A man walked in (mentally disturbed as it happens) and shot him in the eye with a high powered air pistol

    In TFT terms, this would be a "wow, eye strike deadly as hell" - And I 100% gurantee that not a single TFT guy would be able to strike an eye faster or harder than an air pellet.

    However, herein lies the problem. The victim not not proceed to capitulate in fear or pain - he instead chased the guy out of the bar and proceeded to beat twelve shades of shit out of him.

    The TFT system states that this should not have happened becxaise he was hit with one of these deadly violent strikes - reality dictates that TFT is talking out of its arse. I have seen people who have been stabbed, kicked in the bollocks, glassed, shot and in one case hit with lumps of wood so hard they lost three pints of blood. Yet none of them stopped fighting.

    Stay in your little TFT bubble where violence follows rules and attackers do what they are theoretically supposed to - and I hope you are never put in a position where you or your family need to have you rely on TFT.

    Sugar pedestals like the one you have constructed all melt when the rain comes down - you lack of experience shows through in your posts (and that is not meant nastily) but all is not lost. You just need to realise that these quick-fix courses are just bollocks and that others with far nore experience and ability than you recognise that fact. You would do well to heed our advice - however it is delivered on these boards it is well meant.
    I also know guys who have been so high on drugs that they have been hit in the nutz and didnt go down, the adrenalin factor is a major one in a fight and although some strikes I believe, like a throat strike would bring most people down.

    No problem with teching moves that rely on the opponent to do something and react, a good teacher would say but that this is the IDEAL situation and the moves are no substitute for a solid base, a fight is messy and unpredictable but if you train those other moves that may seem impossible to some people, perhaps there will be a moment in the fight that will match your training of a particular impossible move and then you can end the fight right there so it gives you that extra % to save yourself,

    I did some crazy moves in sparing sometimes and It's going to be a while before I can recreate them if you conciously can, but because the oportunity was right at the time the move worked, if I went and tryed to do it all the time it wouldn't work but it's still theve as an extra

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  • Rajah
    Originally posted by Punisher
    The hitting first when violence is going to happen no matter what, I can live with. But those are not the same as "situations where you are legally permitted to use lethal force."

    Again sounds like American Kenpo.

    But they never show you how get to "where everything changes in your favor"?

    Look, I'm not trying to be a dick. I haven't seen the tapes, you have. If you like them, they help you, and you think their good....that's great. But so far almost everything I've heard seen or read, indicates to me this is just dressed up American Kenpo with a jacked up price tag.

    At the very least, it is very bad insurance policy. Most people will never be in a situation where deadly force is required.
    Okay your last sentence is very wrong.That entirely depends on your environment or where you live if your bob mcrich and live in some suburbs you probably won't be in a deadly situation if you stay there.However, if you dont livein a nice neighberhood or go downtown or wherever you can get beat the hell out of by some punk gang or some random mugger.For example, just the other day me and my friend were walking in a walmart and some dude calls my friend a racist name and then he started to attack him my friend did beat the HOLY HELL outa him but he was faced with a possibly deadly situation because the guy had a knife he didn't draw it though.

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  • MartialFart
    Target Focus Pocus is full of shit.

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  • Improviser
    Originally posted by curby82
    thats why me sparring with a partner does me no good in preparing for violence because noone comes up to you at the ATM and demands your money in thier karate stance,
    I think this is hilarious.
    Originally posted by [Kungfoolss
    Here's the thing junior, the way you go on and on about affecting the somatic nervous system you're all hung up on, you'll never be able to pull it off without working out on a heavy bag/muay thai pads/kicking shield/whatever. You simply will not be able to generate the structural power necessary to affect another individual the way you claim because the motor skills of the left side of the brain have not been conditioned to this form of body resistance.
    Can you please explain why you say this? I'm confident I can kick someone in the balls withouth needing to train on a heavy bag. Or if I get the opportunity, strike someone in the neck with my elbow, or whatever.
    Last edited by Improviser; 12/06/2007 5:02pm, .

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  • Severe
    everyone gets full of shit eventually if they are allowed to believe their own crap. if the only person who thinks a system works is the creator its a little suspect. I enjoy the RBSD concepts but have yet to be sucked in to marketing that promises the power of a cyborg in 5 hours through watching DVDs.

    RBSD isnt the only guilty party in the bullshit department. every style/system has its wack jobs.

    while humans are involved, someone is talking shit somewhere.

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  • Hanniballistic
    Originally posted by mark123
    bwdillon-don't accuse me of talking like Mr. Miyagi, but you have alot of good judgment and and insight (based on your posts) to only be 18; I commend you.
    What the blue lazes are you talking about?


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  • mark123
    bwdillon-don't accuse me of talking like Mr. Miyagi, but you have alot of good judgment and and insight (based on your posts) to only be 18; I commend you.

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  • robin2chris
    didnt tim larkin used to be a student of jerry peterson and carry on about how great scars training was? theres plenty of posts and threads about that b.s. already here.

    far as tft goes, it sounds like repackaged scars. that hit somebody and they will ALWAYS react in a certain way stuff. theres a saying in western boxing about everyone having a plan until they get hit. easy to say your going to do this before that . little more difficult to pull of with a person resisting.

    and it should remind people of american kenpo. parker learned some things from jimmy woo of san soo. who in turn was bill husseys instructor. and peterson was a student of hussey. finally larkin was a student of peterson. same concept getting kicked around by different name.

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