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    #91

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      #92
      Out of curiosity, what'd you think of the most recent video clip?

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        #93
        I'm not entirely sure of what context that training clip is in. That sort of randori training is good for developing body movement/placement but is completely unrealistic. It is important to give realistic reaction when you are doing this kind of training but you still need to give realistic attacks and resistance (don't be a compliant stoog and flop around like a fish).
        My friend who introduced me to TFT works in a psychiatric ward and has successfully used the base principles to take on larger untrained mentally unstable people.

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          #94
          Originally posted by bwdillon
          I'm not entirely sure of what context that training clip is in.
          Handling a guy armed with a firearm, i.e., threatening you with lethal force.

          That sort of randori training is good for developing body movement/placement but is completely unrealistic. It is important to give realistic reaction when you are doing this kind of training but you still need to give realistic attacks and resistance (don't be a compliant stoog and flop around like a fish).
          You stated previously the TFT mantra - "Penetrate, dominate, whatever." However, I did not see that in this clip. From what I can ascertain, this is 'technique 9' from some portion of their curriculum in dealing with people armed with firearms. Undoubtedly, instructor Torin posted this in the hopes of impressing the layman with his use of strike manipulation and takedown. Clearly, instructor Torin doesn't know what the hell he's talking about because that sort of thing from beginning to end is likely to get you shot and killed.

          My friend who introduced me to TFT works in a psychiatric ward and has successfully used the base principles to take on larger untrained mentally unstable people.
          I suppose when you get beyond the basics as this latest clip shows, TFT principles falls apart rather quickly.

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            #95
            I'm weary of virtualy any gun defence. So far I have yet to meet someone who can pull them off successfully enough for me to be convinced. I used to have one of those airsoft guns that use the little paintballs/plastic bb's and if someone can't get make it work on that how can they make it work with a gun when someone has intent to kill.
            ps. I think I looked at the wrong clip LOL.
            wihich number post was the clip on?
            Last edited by bwdillon; 2/28/2007 12:45pm, . Reason: question

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              #96
              Oh durr sorry about that, I was looking at one of the clips from a few pages back. Yeah this is a prime example of what I don't like about TFT. Like I said I still haven't met anyone who can preform this sort of thing satisfactorily.

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                #97
                Originally posted by Kungfoolss
                I suppose when you get beyond the basics as this latest clip shows, TFT principles falls apart rather quickly.
                Basics + impressive fluff = crap

                The formula to make it work is:

                Basics x time + resistance = ability to correctly improvise = "advanced technique"

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                  #98
                  what the hell is wrong with these TFT people who think they can teach me how to injure someone in a weekend, don't they know it takes a degree in rocket science and years of practice to learn how to hurt someone, thats why only criminals do it effeciently cause they are smart and they sit on the block taking courses in knife and gun attacks.

                  the clip was from thier weapons series which showed a lot of techniques the one you viewed just happened to be one where the the thug was simply brandishing the weapon and obviously showed others where the weapon was aimed from various orientations.

                  on the topic of not taking control of the gun I say this. I know many feel uncomfortable with the target in this particular vid (pre mastoid) and quite frankly yes there are other targets that most may find easier or may trust more and thats fine, TFT just tries to show you the full range of targets that are available to you, because all targets are considered equal because quite frankly if the technique just showed him stepping in and toe kicking the guy in the groin and then with another step while he is going into his picture perfect groin reaction gave him a double forarm strike to the neck, causeing him to faint noone would have thought much of the gun because those targets are obvious to us, but quite frankly after kicking the guy in the balls, knocking him unconsious, then crushing his throat so he sufficates in his sleep, would me now picking up his gun that I know absolutly nothing about and shooting him be any worse than what I just did to him? some may still say yes quite boldly and thats ok I guess because all our lives we have been taught the gun carries all the power and to always respect and take care of the gun before anything else.

                  The vids are not there to show you how to go about injuring a man with a gun, it's to show you different ways in which the principles can be imployed also the joint breaking and weapons vids do not go very in depth into TFT's principles, if you want a clear understanding on what it is about you will first need to get thier seminar series or attend one of thier live trainings.

                  OH P.S. the gun does not do anything but what the operator tells it to, and TFT also goes in depth as well in showing you how to insure that you don't get shot accidentally while the guy is falling etc as well as ensureing the safety of bystanders but as alwasy the primary concern is yourself

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                    #99
                    Originally posted by curby82
                    what the hell is wrong with these TFT people who think they can teach me how to injure someone in a weekend, don't they know it takes a degree in rocket science and years of practice to learn how to hurt someone, thats why only criminals do it effeciently cause they are smart and they sit on the block taking courses in knife and gun attacks.

                    the clip was from thier weapons series which showed a lot of techniques the one you viewed just happened to be one where the the thug was simply brandishing the weapon and obviously showed others where the weapon was aimed from various orientations.

                    on the topic of not taking control of the gun I say this. I know many feel uncomfortable with the target in this particular vid (pre mastoid) and quite frankly yes there are other targets that most may find easier or may trust more and thats fine, TFT just tries to show you the full range of targets that are available to you, because all targets are considered equal because quite frankly if the technique just showed him stepping in and toe kicking the guy in the groin and then with another step while he is going into his picture perfect groin reaction gave him a double forarm strike to the neck, causeing him to faint noone would have thought much of the gun because those targets are obvious to us, but quite frankly after kicking the guy in the balls, knocking him unconsious, then crushing his throat so he sufficates in his sleep, would me now picking up his gun that I know absolutly nothing about and shooting him be any worse than what I just did to him? some may still say yes quite boldly and thats ok I guess because all our lives we have been taught the gun carries all the power and to always respect and take care of the gun before anything else.

                    The vids are not there to show you how to go about injuring a man with a gun, it's to show you different ways in which the principles can be imployed also the joint breaking and weapons vids do not go very in depth into TFT's principles, if you want a clear understanding on what it is about you will first need to get thier seminar series or attend one of thier live trainings.

                    OH P.S. the gun does not do anything but what the operator tells it to, and TFT also goes in depth as well in showing you how to insure that you don't get shot accidentally while the guy is falling etc as well as ensureing the safety of bystanders but as alwasy the primary concern is yourself
                    I like most of the tft stuff there take on violence is pretty close to the way it's been for me. But like I said try that gun defence shite while someone you don't train with (IE a buddy who dosn't do tft or any other martial art) uses an airsoft pistol on you. Remember to wear proper eye protection when you do this. Those airsoft pistols are dirt cheap, just tell him to try and shoot you while you defend. I'm not jokeing you should really do this, I teach self defence and I REFUSE to teach people anything I myself cannot do in real life.
                    p.s I've watched two of there dvd sets so I'm not just going by the clips that are shown here. Also I've been in some rough spots and know that things don't work as well as you belive they will, when someone pulls a knife you don't usualy know untill you've already been stabbed (or cut).

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                      thats why only criminals do it effeciently cause they are smart and they sit on the block taking courses in knife and gun attacks.
                      Criminals don't do it efficiently - that's why more people survive attacks than die from them. Also, you're presenting a false argument by comparing knife and gun attacks to empty hand defenses; my two year old could accidentally hurt someone if he had a knife or a gun.

                      You may not be taking the gun away to shoot him, curby - ASSUMING your technique works, you could just be taking it away to deny it to him/anyone else. You know - secure the scene.

                      Comment


                        I watched the 'free fighting' vid clip. This is the lamest shit i have seen in quite some time.

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOyE6aQ6qKE

                        Why would I need to formulate an argument. It speaks for itself.

                        Resistance? NO
                        Speed? NO
                        Force? NO

                        Choreographed? YUP
                        Silly? YUP
                        Compliance? YUP

                        How does this differ from aikido?

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                          Originally posted by curby82
                          what the hell is wrong with these TFT people who think they can teach me how to injure someone in a weekend, don't they know it takes a degree in rocket science and years of practice to learn how to hurt someone, thats why only criminals do it effeciently cause they are smart and they sit on the block taking courses in knife.....*snip*
                          First off, welcome to the boards - it is nice to have representatives of discussed systems turning up as long as they can string two sentences together.

                          Secondly, that clip is appallingly bad, not to mention dangerous. If that is an example of how you deal with a weapom - and it must be or it would not be on the tape - then the entire system mst be thrown into question, or at the very least raise an eyebrow.

                          I like theories - but that is all they are. You CANNOT say "If you hit here this will happen". Anyone who says otherwise is a damn liar. True there is a sense of probability ("I kicka your nutz, you falla to da floor") but what you are failing to address is what happens when your technique fails.

                          TFT appears to take no account of positive mindset, altered state or physical immunity. The "chain of strikes" school of thought falls down as soon as the first one fails. In this sense it is just Kyoshu-Jitsu all dressed up for the new millenium.

                          I am genuinely interested in fleshing out this discourse, so a little about your background might be useful.

                          What arts have you studied?
                          What Grade/How long?
                          What is your combative experience?
                          How do you drill your TFT? (Any pressure testing?)
                          How old are you?

                          I await your reply with polite interest

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by cyrijl

                            How does this differ from aikido?
                            No Magic Pants?

                            It is interesting to note that a "passive" method such as Aikido and an "aggressive" method such as TFT (well, it claims to be) use similar levels of partner compliance.

                            I can understand it more from Aikido, (which at least can use the argument about "spiritual growth") but in a system that is supposedly "teh d3adly" it is unforgivable
                            Last edited by Hanniballistic; 3/14/2007 8:38am, .

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                              You have to watch their explanations

                              You're pulling this out of context they never claim to free spar or anything. If you watch their outrageously priced DVD's they explain that this is just a training drill. It's not defence it's offence so there are no realistic attacks (they don't work from an attack). It isn't a martial art but more like a basic training sort of thing that someone can learn quickly and become better prepared. As I mentioned before their unarmed and some of their armed stuff does work but it's not designed to go up against a skilled martial artist who is squaring off against you. It teaches you how to cripple or kill you average thug without becoming a good fighter, which takes a considerable amount of time for most people. Do I disagree with some of the things they do? Sure, I don't like their gun defence, I don't like most of their knife defence, and I don't like how they claim that their techniques work every time. But those things aside this programme isn't really that bad and I would recommend it to someone who had no interest in pursuing martial arts or sport fighting but wanted to learn how to protect themselves in a short period of time.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by bwdillon
                                You're pulling this out of context they never claim to free spar or anything. If you watch their outrageously priced DVD's they explain that this is just a training drill. It's not defence it's offence so there are no realistic attacks (they don't work from an attack).
                                1)If they do not spar they are just LARPing at combat.
                                2)If they don't work from an attack they are by definition the instigators and therefore offenders - if they do not practive against a technique they will lose when someone launches one at them - period.
                                3)A drill is designed to prepare you for the real thing - your argument is therefore logically flawed
                                4) This clip still really, really sucks

                                Originally posted by bwdillon
                                It isn't a martial art but more like a basic training sort of thing that someone can learn quickly and become better prepared.
                                That is total crap - anyone who wants to learn how to defend themselves without learning a cohesive system needs to get a dog, a gun or run very fast.

                                Originally posted by bwdillon
                                As I mentioned before their unarmed and some of their armed stuff does work but it's not designed to go up against a skilled martial artist who is squaring off against you. It teaches you how to cripple or kill you average thug without becoming a good fighter, which takes a considerable amount of time for most people.
                                So they have a "magic secret" then? Bollocks. They are selling snake oil to the masses.
                                Your argument reads like a press release and has no merit. You cannot be a "good" fighter (whatever that means) without being able to fight. If you cannot fight you will not be able to defend yourself

                                Originally posted by bwdillon
                                Do I disagree with some of the things they do? Sure, I don't like their gun defence, I don't like most of their knife defence, and I don't like how they claim that their techniques work every time.
                                So that is pretty much their whole syllabus then isn't it?

                                Originally posted by bwdillon
                                But those things aside this programme isn't really that bad
                                You mean apart from the fact you think the whole thing sucks and will probably get you maimed it isn't that bad?

                                Originally posted by bwdillon
                                and I would recommend it to someone who had no interest in pursuing martial arts or sport fighting but wanted to learn how to protect themselves in a short period of time.
                                I would recommend they learn a proper combat system and stop wasting time with "magic beans".

                                From what background or positio do you make this endorsement

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