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Caught Red-handed: ATA TKD Black Belts Teaching Crappling?

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    Caught Red-handed: ATA TKD Black Belts Teaching Crappling?

    One of our local free newspapers ran an article ( ) this week about a series of excellent amateur MMA events held in the lovely city of Louisville, KY. Though the article was fairly positive in nature, the author made several assertions that I feel were in error, and omitted some important information.

    My main three complaints are as follows:

    A.) The author asserts that the UFC popularized MMA worldwide.

    B.) He makes no mention of larger international organizations that have/will be holding events in the U.S.

    C.) He then does a technique demonstration ( ) with another martial artist that is full of errors. Errors that only a crappler with little-to-no mat time would make.

    Exhibit A:

    I have seen worse arm bar attempts (the right knee should be pointed toward the head, the thumb of the arm being attacked should be pointed up, etc), but this picture made me curious. Black belts? There aren't any BJJ black belts in Kentucky. A quick search of the local Judo dojo's website showed that neither of these martial artists hold any signficant rank in Judo.

    Exhibit B:

    Wait a second . . . that doesn't look like any kind of grappling gi.

    Exhibit C:

    I'm not an expert on leg locks, but as far as I know, this is a good example of how NOT to do a heel hook. The person performing the heel hook should have laced his right leg over the leg he is attacking, or at the very least, blocked the hip. There is nothing preventing the person being heel hooked from getting out it.

    Exhibit D:

    A.) Note the poor base of the person applying this technique. Also, note that he does not figure four his hands. I tried doing a keylock his way and could generate very little leverage. His left elbow should be on the mat, blocking the head. Preferably at a 90 degree angle to the arm he is locking

    B.) ". . . the opponent has a free hand to strike with." The opponent is not going to be striking you while you key lock him. He is going to be submitting or having his shoulder destroyed. The only striking going on will be the opponent striking the nearest surface repeatedly to tap out.

    Exhibit E:

    If you look closely, you can see "ATA" clearly emblazoned on the patch located above the mounted martial artist's right breast. ATA = American Tae Kwon Do Association. Also notice the myriad trophies in the background. If a grappling school had this many trophies, I would have heard about it.

    Exhibit F:

    Guy on top's leg positioning is begging for guy on bottom to regain guard. Guy on bottom's left arm is in an incredibly vulnerable position, especially considering that he has his hands clasped.

    Exhibit G:

    This shoot is horrible. The man attempting the shoot should not be bent over the way he is. His level should be lowered. In fact, there is nothing correct about this shoot that I can determine. The man doing the sprawl should have his legs kicked out farther and wider. This photo looks more like he is standing upright. His arms are also in a fairly poor position. He should be using his arms to block the arms of the man shooting in some fashion.

    Exhibit H:

    A.) Again, look at the horrible base. No way is the person applying the kimura going to finish from there. At the very least, his left leg should be stepped over the other demonstrator's head. Beyond that, his grip is not figure foured (same as in the key lock). I could not generate significant leverage with this grip, and I am far larger than the man appyling this lock.

    B. ". . . but the opponent has many opportunities to counter." True, the kimura from side control can be hard to finish, but I get the feeling that the author is again asserting that you can strike your way out of the situation. My interpretation could be incorrect here. Regardless, if you have the kimura locked with your leg blocking your opponent's head, he is going to have a fairly hard time countering this technique.

    Status of my investigation: Early, but promising (or not, depending on your perspective). Searches of and on google have turned up little information about either of these martial artists (Mclaughlin and Vogt). My current suspicion is that they hold rank in no competent grappling arts. Regardless of any rank they do hold, they are clearly showing crappling. These pictures are all supposedly representative of the techniques they describe, and they are in no way, shape or form, proper technique.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

    To continue my research, I have sent an initial email to the LEO newspaper A.) stating my complaints and B.) offering a solution to the issue. Here is a copy of that email, with personal information removed:

    To Whom It May Concern:

    As an avid Mixed Martial Arts fan and as a current student of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (and former Boxing and Muay Thai student), I would like to complement you on publishing an article that does not take an inflammatory position on the subject. However, the article (link: has some inaccuracies and omissions in it that I feel should be addressed.

    1.) In paragraph 2 of page 13 of the print article (final sentence), the author makes a statement to the effect that the UFC popularized Mixed Martial Arts worldwide. This is simply not true. Vale Tudo has been wildly popular in Brazil for much of the 20th Century, and organized Mixed Martial Arts Competitions have existed (and been popular) in Japan since at least the 1980s. A cursory check of Wikipedia (link: would have shown this. The sad fact is that MMA is just now gain popularity in the United States. To your average reader this distinction might not matter, but to a fan of the sport, this error undermines the credibility of both the author and the paper.

    2.) The article omits any mention whatsoever of more popular Mixed Martial Arts organizations. I understand that the UFC is at the height of popularity in the U.S. currently, but there are far larger organizations out there that have had or will have fight cards in the United States. The two major organizations I am referring to are Pride Fighting Championship ( and K-1 (
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal


      I should have ample free time in the next few days to send queries to surrounding TKD schools to try to locate the training camp of the accused.

      I see two significant problems with this demonstration, hence my investigation:

      1.) Two crapplers could conceivably teach their students crappling, leading to possible injury or death if the circumstances to apply said techniques in a life-threatening situation arise.

      2.) The LEO is a newspaper. Its credibility is at stake here. If they printed inaccurate information, they should be held accountable.

      One thing I ask: To those who choose to assist me, leave my school, my school's website (should you discover its name and/or url), and my personal information out of this investigation unless the need becomes dire. I have more than ample reason for not wanting my personal information on the web. If an administrator has a problem with this, I would also ask that he or she PM me. I will be more than happy to explain myself.
      Last edited by Cassius; 2/23/2006 12:20am, .
      "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal


        Pos rep and all that shit.

        Unfortunately, many cops are uneducated in the difference between legitimate and the above stated grappling, good on you for trying to educate them.


          The hideous mistakes being made in literally every single picture makes me want to beat up mr. handwraps.


            These are great examples of Crappling. Good Yob.

            To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
            Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
            Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness


              ATA teaching stuff they have no business teaching??

              Who'da thunk it?!


                well what fuck is a fucking dude learning submissions from a fuck taekwondo guy?


                  exhibit G should be captioned how to make your opponent fart to distract him enough to pull guard.


                    Amusing, but I honestly want fairly serious discussion on this thread. A little trolling is okay, but I would like this to be as professional as possible given the circumstances.

                    I'm trying to help set a good example for other prospective "Bullshido" forum (as in this specific forum on bullshido, not all forums) posters.

                    An example of a helpful post would be to point out more crappling in the pictures I have featured. I know I left a few things out related to positioning, so have at that.
                    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal


                      I am betting you get a reply stating "Blah blah newspaper tries to keep to its standards, but it is not always possible. Sorry for your inconvenience." And they won't really do shit about it.


                        Originally posted by Poop Loops
                        I am betting you get a reply stating "Blah blah newspaper tries to keep to its standards, but it is not always possible. Sorry for your inconvenience." And they won't really do shit about it.
                        If they do say that:

                        1.) I will raise a ruckus around town and do my best to show as many people as possible that they write inaccurate articles (I find this possibility to be unlikely, considering that the LEO is run by a fairly small operation).

                        2.) I will still attempt to get the contact info for the martial artists in question. When I get that information, I will then personally visit their schools, ask them questions about their grappling program, view a class if possible, and invite them to a friendly roll session or class at my school. If they tell me that they know nothing about grappling and just took the pictures to make the paper happy, I will then forward this information to the paper with some nasty commentary.

                        I'm taking a stand on this, dammit.
                        "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal


                          All of the grappling is wrong, there needs to be no elaboration other than anyone with even a little experience is going to be able to see that the arm locks they are attempting are incorrect and without proper positioning. The shoot and defense aren't reality based because neither one has any experience performing the moves they have depicted in the photos.

                          It is obvious that they did not even perform decent research into the techniques before attempting to teach them, much less being adequately trained.


                            1) The ruckus will be ignored. Most people are ignorant of martial arts altogether.

                            2) They'll say they know grappling and tell you to leave, not accepting your invitation to roll.

                            You should try and roll with the ATA guys on their own turf. But try not to make it into a challenge... Although that might be REALLY hard without signing any contracts...


                              holy shit, 6 months of judo about a year ago and i could spot the crappling just from the pictures, except the heel hook (snice we never did those)

                              too much lol



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