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    From the link you gave, I'm guessing that you're in Skokie Illinois. Google says that they're a Judo school not far from the address of the whack kung-fu school in your link.

    Kokushikan Judo Academy, 4125 W. Oakton St. Skokie Il

    I don't think that you've explored all of your options. The ones that you listed, miscellaneous Kung-fu, aikido, or TKD, pretty much suck. (BTW, I believe in the existence of good kung-fu, but this aint it.)

    The Judo school is worth checking out. Also, see if there aren't some MMA, Muay Thai, boxing, BJJ or kyokushin schools.


      I'm sorry if it didn't sound like I meant.
      I was just a little annoyed at Thaiboxerken's one-sided viewpoint, it also seemed to be 'dogma' like you said of my post. But what I was trying to do was expand what he said, because I really do agree with him, in essence.
      In the case that the guy wants to try out the kung fu school, I was trying to give him some pointers on what to keep an eye out for.
      Anyway I stand by my comment, "But in the end it really all depends on the instructor".

      Take it easy


        Originally posted by _Mick_

        Holy shit! I think he ki blasted that guy! You totally have to go th that place!!!11
        That's not an after shot, it's a before. Training for the street.
        You see, muggers always jump at you from the shadows, it's a scare tactic. Notice, he is simulating a weapon with his left hand, and preparing to steal his wallet with the right.



          Since Mr. Mantis implied we weren't being helpful..................... :BangHead:

          Here are schools within the area around the kung fu school you posted.

          1716 16th Ave
          Moline, IL 61265
          Chief Instructor:
          Jack LaGrange
          (309) 764-7844

          He has fought in the ring although, I can't find his record. I've seen his name teaching modern Arnis.

          Kokushikan Judo Academy
          (847) 677-6560
          4125 Oakton St
          Skokie, IL 60076

          GracieBarra Chicago
          4900 Lincoln Ave
          Chicago, IL 60625
          Instructor: Eddie Redzovic

          These are all within a 5 mile radius of the school you posted.

          These are 13 miles away again from the kung fu school you posted.

          Carlson Gracie Team
          1235 N Lasalle St Fl 2
          Chicago IL 60608
          (312) 491-0989
          Carlson Gracie Sr(R.I.P). & Jr.
          Daniel Vienna BB

          Dino Costeas
          950 W. Washington
          Chicago, IL 60607
          (312) 829-7699
          Under Rickson Gracie

          Carlson Gracie Team


            You already have exp in a striking art. I suggest picking up a grappling art to fill in the holes. Check out a judo/bjj school. It looks like there are a few good ones in your area. Plus a lot of bjj schools also have some form of mma/nhb type program so you can keep your striking skills up to par and maybe even get some boxing/mt instruction while your learning bjj. I'm picking up MT here soon to fill in the gaps with my striking as I drop more judo/aikido classes (I should note the only reason I'm dropping judo is becuase of a lack of adults in the class for me to train with, so I get more training at bjj).

            In the end you have to go with what you want. But I'd suggest not jumping into anything, take it slow, maybe even see if you can do some friendly sparing. No need to jump into something you might hate.
            "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki


              Wow! This is the second time today I've posted this checklist.

              This is my criteria for a good Gong Fu school but it really works for just about any martial art.

              Do they allow you to participate in (or at least observe) a class before you pay anything? If the answer is "yes" than give yourself a check.

              Does the gym participate in competitions?
              If the answer is "yes" than give yourself a check.

              Does the gym spar full contact (including head shots)?
              If the answer is "yes" than give yourself a check.

              Does the gym have reasonable equipment (mats for throws and grappling, punching bags, a wood dummy -a _ing _un dummy as some people call them, weights, etc.)?
              If the answer is "yes" than give yourself a check.

              Are applications demonstrated for all techniques?
              If the answer is "yes" than give yourself a check.

              Are the techniques stress tested through use against a resisting opponent?
              If the answer is "yes" than give yourself a check.

              Does the gym charge extra for components of the basic training regimen (sparring, weapons, grappling, etc.)?
              If the answer is "no" than give yourself a check. If the answer is "yes" than subtract one check.

              Does the gym spend more than 30% of class time on "forms"?
              If the answer is "no" than give yourself a check.

              Does the gym spend more than 50% of class time on "forms"?
              If the answer is "yes" than subtract one check from the total.

              Does the instructor talk regularly about "qi", "chi", or any other sort of non-validatable mystical energy?
              If the answer is "no" than give yourself a check.

              Does the instructor make unverifiable claims about themselves, their history or the style (examples include: this style will beat any other style, this is the best style of gong fu, this style is too deadly for the ring, I was a secret agent, I learned my gong fu from an ancient master on Wudan Shan who never taught another foreigner, XYZ style is just a watered down version of my style, I have the real lineage)?
              If the answer is "no" than give yourself a check. If the answer is "yes" than subtract a check for each instance.

              Does the instructor encourage cross-training in other styles or at least encourage training in techniques in all ranges of combat, including ground?
              If the answer is "yes" than give yourself a check.

              This will give you a score of up-to 10 OK, actually 11 but think of the last one as a possible bonus mark. Now think back to high school. A bare pass is a 5 out of 10 but even that is not a good grade. If the school ranked below 7 out of 10 I would look elsewhere unless it was the only game in town. Even if it were the only Gong Fu school in town (or the best) I'd be giving serious consideration to looking at other schools despite my personal affinity for Gong Fu.
              If a school scoredr 9 out of 10 I'd probably sign up on the spot. I've only ever seen one Gong Fu school that met all these criteria. I only left it when I left the country.

              And don't listen to Thai Boxer Ken. He's full of shit. That being said I'm not endorsing this school in particular. Their website makes it look like they are 100% forms. You might as well take up interpretive dance if this is the case. 100% forms is not traditional Chinese martial art.

              Things like this fill me with some concern:

              Sword Finger Qigong Workshop? To be blunt (I'm a jian nut... hell I have 3 of them and all see regular use) the two fingers pointing on the opposite hand thing is about as pointless as you can get. If I'm working with swords I want to keep my second hand open to either switch to a two handed grip if necessary or to grapple my opponent in hopes of making an opening to stab them in the gut. All the qigong, wudan, semi-mystical bullshit about balancing life and death and the equally stupid drunken style rantings about holding a wine gourd in the opposite hand are so much :bduh: dross.
              Last edited by Simon McNeil; 2/22/2006 9:04am, .


                All else fails, join the wrestling team at your high school.


                  Originally posted by ehuber
                  Real healthy attitude there Thaiboxerken.
                  Be careful if in the first class they try to teach dim mak (pressure point striking), overly complex stances, kicks, etc..
                  Good luck
                  ...why would they try to teach me that first class or even first rank?

                  Anyway,thanks for the help. The only thing I'm still wondering about is why akido would be out of the question. also, the only muaythai/bjj place around here closed down like i said before. otherwise, i would've totally gone for it. And trust me, I've looked really hard trying to find schools around the part of illinois where i live.

         for KF, I know the picture is really corny :5butthead , but i still might just check it out and see what its all about. I'm really stuck between a rock here, heh.

                  anyway, if the kf school does turn out to be complete shit, then i might just stay with tkd for the time also learning some hopkido and kum do from there anyway, so if worst comes to worst, i could stay with the school until i move. thanks for the help

                  oh, also the kf school i posted is already about 15-20 miles away from me already. going to chicago on a regular basis would be a complete pain in the ass. thanks for helping look for schools anyway. try searching for MA schools in arlington heights/buffalo grove , il, there almost all tkd/karate/akido which pisses me off
                  Last edited by DropThaBomb; 2/22/2006 4:44pm, .


                    Seriously, go to your YMCA and ask if they have boxing or Judo. They probably do. Go to a local university or community college and ask if they have a judo club.


                      i wouldnt take that Kung Fu, they teach many styles, it is always iffi when some one teaches that many styles. Tai Chi, meh not much there, I deffinetly wouldnt stick with tkd unless they do frequent sparring (NOT WTF SPARRING) youve probobly learned all your gonna learn in tkd, do wrestling at your high school, its hard work, youll lose weight gain muscle and maby just maby youll get Cauliflower Ears. Ohh SEXY


                        Originally posted by DropThaBomb
                        ... The only thing I'm still wondering about is why akido would be out of the question.
                        Because people assume you want to learn how to fight. Most aikido in chicago is Ki society crap. You will hold hands, dance, learn to fall down and breathe deeply. Then you will get to 'blend' over and over with your partner (and by blend I mean fall down). The people who train the martial aspect of aikido are a dying breed (well lets face it, they are all but dead). There is good aikido out there (most people will tell you there is not) but I think it is more rare then good kungfu.

                        My judo instructor jokes all the time and tells me the only aikido that works is judo. I'd listen to most of the posters here, there has got to be judo or boxing/kickboxing somewhere in your area. If not there will be wrestling (this is the midwest, there has got to be wrestling in school and out). I wouldn't stay with tkd though. Nothing to do with the style. My reason is that you are questioning leaving tkd. I think that means its time for you to leave and see what other arts are out there. You have a blackbelt, you shouldn't really require much instruction. So you should be fine to practice on your own while you go try out new schools.

                        Also, dont forget to check gyms to see if they have classes. Our bjj class is moving to a gym, i know of a few boxing places that just hold classes at a local gym. Also ask around, probe the local enviroment. When I was looking for judo I asked my aikido instructor who he would recomend. We have a fairly small martial arts scene around here, he knew all the judo guys and could give me a good lowdown on their attitudes. Of course I checked all of them out, but I wouldn't of found the school I train at now if I wouldn't of asked. It wasn't even in the phone book. If you are worried about your instructors response to a question like that, they I would really have to question the school.

                        Anyways, good luck in your search.
                        "a martial art that has no rules is nothing but violence" - Kenji Tomiki


                          If you want to do kung fu because you enjoy it and want to do it, do that.

                          But if you want to learn to fight better and on a wider range, go BJJ/Judo/JJ/Boxing etc.


                            It really depends on your motives for training. If you just want to do it for fun or wish to live out your Bruce Lee fantasies, then by all means train some kung fu. Just don't get sucked into the delusions of invincibility.


                              Idiots with delusions of grandeur exist in every martial art. A good Gong Fu school is just as good as a good <insert style x> school. It's more important to find good instruction at a school you are comfortable with than it is to pick this style or that.

                              Use the guidelines I posted; you'll notice that not even the MT nutriders are arguing with them.


                                Sadly, there are McDojo-tendencies in my MT class, kids, overcrowding and so on, a few iffy techniques being taught ("green moves" maybe?) I think the need for money is to blame. But most of the time is spent on sparring and bagwork, and you can have all the contact you want (it's just that most people don't want it).



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