Fang Shen Do

[shadow beast]

He says to the man listed on fcfighter



Why the constant urge to get people from posting their opinions here? I don't buy your excuse you prefer to speak in private at all. It seems to me you are trying very hard to bring the discussion of FSD's inadequency as a fighting system, the manifold flaws of its teachers and their lack of valuable qualifications and the rip-off mcdojos the organisation franchises out like dirty spores in a private realm as opposed to a public one.

i dont give a damn where he is listed, he constantly puts me down, assuming our sparring wasnt full contact, assuming just cause i aint in the ufc that he can kick my ass, things dont work this way..

but anyway, i dont care to ask in private or public, i just want to talk and ask my questions without idiots putting in their useless opinions.

but just to make you happy, ill ask my questions for those who actually took fsd, not anyone who didnt.

1: i must be retarded, cause i dont remember getting clarification on this, but does the bbc act as a stand alone membership? meaning i can attend reg classes, bbc classes, weapons, and sparring classes? and the bbc membership can REPLACE the normal membership? insted of paying both?

2: how are the sifu's in montreal? personality wise?

3: for those who took the bbc membership, what did the bbc classes consist of?

that is all,

[BoardHitBack]

but anyway, i dont care to ask in private or public, i just want to talk and ask my questions without idiots putting in their useless opinions.

Please tell me who you think is an idiot and why their opinions are useless.

I'm interested in your wisdom and counsel.

[enhanced]

Yes Corvus damned if you do damned if you don't.

Ok Black Belt I answered the questions that will come back to haunt me.

You asked on page 43 post #638
I answered on page 44 post #659

(If I'm wrong point it out and I will go back to read the post and answer. We're up to 915 posts it is possible I missed something.)


Now I'm asking ANYBODY again give me some specific examples of what makes other martial arts better. SPECIFIC. This person should probably be somebody who took actually FSD.

School X does it this way it's right because...
FSD does it this way it's not right because...

and not just, School X is not FSD
and an FSD Sifu goit pimped

give me something real, back it up. explain. Please!


Not your Sifu got pimped by.... that just tells me he got pimped by some mystery guy who took some BJJ.

I already know that there is a real lack of grappling in FSD. But what is wrong with what I did learn.

Can somebody who took FSD and then moved on to something else give me the answers that everybody is so reluctant (unable?) to give me.

You guys talk about the FSD guys not answering questions but I'm not getting any myself. I'm getting lots of replies but no answers.

If you guys really want to show that FSD is not a good self defense system you must explain why what they do teach is uneffective.

All your other points stand for themselves the overcharging, secret clubs, multiple clubs, seminars needed to advance. All these things I have agreed on. It's impossible not to.

How else can I make myself clear?

[Askari]

assuming just cause i aint in the ufc that he can kick my ass, things dont work this way..

No, Shadow Beast, we assume he can kick your ass because you trained in Aikido, thought it was Ju-Jitsu but never bothered to ask your instructor what style you were learning. Oh, and because you thought sparring at your buddies uncles place was MMA, and that TKD BB has actually fought real MMA, you know the kind that is sanctioned by a governing body?

Answers to your questions can be found at this link: A former students perspective
And here (includes enrollement agreement):
Fang Shen Don't

Dont ask again, as your questions have been answered several times.

Now go sulk because I'm not being nice to you.

[TKD Black Belt]

Hey Kip!

i dont give a damn where he is listed, he constantly puts me down, assuming our sparring wasnt full contact, assuming just cause i aint in the ufc that he can kick my ass, things dont work this way..

Don't get yourself in a twist there junior. I promise to be nice from now on. You just keep in mind that you advertised a JJ black belt and an MMA record of 24-4. Somehow I think you wore a big 'kick me' sign on your back when you walked in here. As for my assumptions, I have never said I'd kick your ass.

TKD:chewy:

- Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know I'm training to be a cage fighter.

[shadow beast]

No, Shadow Beast, we assume he can kick your ass because you trained in Aikido, thought it was Ju-Jitsu but never bothered to ask your instructor what style you were learning. Oh, and because you thought sparring at your buddies uncles place was MMA, and that TKD BB has actually fought real MMA, you know the kind that is sanctioned by a governing body?

Answers to your questions can be found at this link: A former students perspective
And here (includes enrollement agreement):
Fang Shen Don't

Dont ask again, as your questions have been answered several times.

Now go sulk because I'm not being nice to you.

rofl dont ask again, ill ask as many god damn times as i want..

this is what i mean, i am trying to talk to enhanced and crazy mount, i want to talk to them and find out their personal opinions about fsd, how it went for them, ect ect, and i am getting replies that i dont want.

so for the last time, please enhanced and/or crazy mount, please talk to me, wether it be msn ( lord_boltizor@hotmail.com ) or how ever.

[shadow beast]

Don't get yourself in a twist there junior. I promise to be nice from now on. You just keep in mind that you advertised a JJ black belt and an MMA record of 24-4. Somehow I think you wore a big 'kick me' sign on your back when you walked in here. As for my assumptions, I have never said I'd kick your ass.

TKD:chewy:

- Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know I'm training to be a cage fighter.

i know i know, i made mistakes, nobodys perfect.

i said mma cause thats what it was, lol people who did all sorts of martial arts, fighting in a ring, full contact, i admit it was a mistake.

and please dont call me junior, i am a 24 year old adult.

[enhanced]

I appreciate the humour in the 'skull fuck' comment which is why I responded in kind. Humour is a funny thing, not always appreciated by those it was intended for. Right now the only joke seems to be FSD.



"Ok I'm big enought o admit it went over my head. Thanks for the humor it keeps things light"

As for proving you're not an FSD instructor.... Well I guess that's your job not mine.

"I can't."

I have respected you enough to answer your questions as bluntly and directly as I could. It is not my fault you haven't read my entire post before responding to it.


"I admit I wanted to respond right away but I did go back and read the whole thing before I was done responding because I know I'd look stupid otherwise and Man I know you guys won't let me get away with that type of shit."


I would suggest reading an entire post and perhaps avoiding the intentionally emotionally inflammatory phrases to get at the heart of my ideas.

"Well Black Belt I'm trying, but your inflammatory phrases flame my ass every time what can I say?
I know with time I'll get used to it because I'm not going anywhere until somebody gives me specifics.
Some of you (all) people think I'm a moron well you're not the first but I know when I'm right. Just because I'm the minority does'nt change that.
You guys started this you owe it to whoever spends the time to read all this to give them the whole story."

[Askari]

School X does it this way it's right because...
FSD does it this way it's not right because...

Hello Enhanced,

The problem with technical development in a Wing Chun derived art like FSD is not solely a problem in FSD. I've trained at clubs with the same technical problems (Wing Chun derived) without the dog sniffing, so I will work to answer your questions. I do not regret having trained WC, it was a long time ago and I have taken benifit from it as a basic training. But I still know the difference between a Pak Sao, a Gum Sao and a Chin Sao, so my analysis of your art comes from expertese in both WC and latter in JJ/BJJ/MMA training.

In post 2 of the videos thread I detailed a criticism of the Phon Sao video, so you can reference my notes there as well.

FSD(WC derived) trains primarily against non-resisting partners and through route memorization of numbered techniques (Phon Sao 15 etc), this does not translate to a real fighting environment because you will now be trying to remember the completely scripted response that you learned in class instead of trying to win the fight.

FSD trains long chains of memorized techniques that need to be demonstrated for an instructor without a direct relationship to fighting. You will never apply these techniques in a sparring match because they will not work.

FSD does not encourage its students to try to beat the instructor in sparring. This is hugely counter productive. A good instructor teaches his students how to beat him. Two reasons:

1) Selfish, if they get better, I will get better by fighting them.
2) It works better if you actually teach them how to fight.

In FSD your sparring looks like piss poor kickboxing. So why dont you train kickboxing techniques during the techniques portion of the class?


School X, a randori based Jiu-Jitsu/Judo/BJJ/wrestling/boxing club spends most of its time working with resisting partners. That is guys who do more then throw one scripted punch then stop moving.

School X, trains exactly the same techniques that it then performs during randori/sparring. The techniques look the same in training and sparring and fighting and competition.

[PeterPantsless]

In my opinion FSD wastes time doing drills that have nothing to do with martial arts training. I've had classes that were entirely dedicated to stretching. Yes, stretching is a good thing, but a whole class, seems like a waste to me. There were also drills where you punch a piece of paper, and try to retract your punch, so that the paper does not get wrinkled. Yup. We also spent entire classes filling out progressive charts and other shit. I hated Lin sil die dar, hard, soft, medium or whatever and salutation is worthless. How much class time focuses on training MA?

FSD also trains many things that just plain do not work in real life. Takedowns, 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9, for example. Phon saus are another gem. Yes, they are lacking in grappling, but also in throwing, and good technique and mechanics in general. After one boxing class, I was surprised to learn that, "Holy shit! I can't punch!"

When we did work combinations, we never surpassed two techniques. FSD loves to boast about "reality", and "street", but two without a chi blast, or touch of death, two technique combos seem lacking.

There is also a good amount of double speak in the system. How many times, have you seen an instructor, make fun of a karate block, (outside in, blocking with forearm. Never took karate so I don't know the name), and then tell you to perform an inner taun sau. Can you see the difference? "We redirect, and they block". Mmm Hmm.

In other schools, I found intructors who spent less time blowing smoke up my ass, and more time teaching me quality martial arts. Enhanced, I urge you to take some free trial classes at other schools, and see for yourself.

[TKD Black Belt]

Listen I'm not trying to be dck, trust me I give it to my students and clients far worse than I give on here. I have a friend who the girl at the gym calls 'muffin' because I've called him that so many times in the gym that she thinks its his nickname. (Listen she wasn't hired for her brains...)

A 24 year old adult? Sorry holmes, you'll be junior for a while but I will repsect your request and not call you that anymore. (Hmm, and I thought calling him Kip would have gotten under his skin more...)

Enhanced, I don't know what more I can tell you. IF you've been involved in FSD for a while I'm sure you heard of or can find out about the incident I keep mentioning. Suffice to say a very high ranking FSD instructor was beaten by someone who he should have had no problem. You ask for a flaw, okay here it is. Why is it that a high ranking FSD instructor could not keep this fight in an area where he was comfortable? Why did he get taken down at all? Regardless of how much or how little grappling you do, this should not happen.

To further the example I'll give you this. I sparred with a boxer (very high end boxer at that, I think he's even been on HBO fights before) and the guy was damn neer impossible to take down because he was so good at maintaining his range as that was what was advantageous for him to do against me. If FSD was good, this wouldn't have happened. Not because you don't know how to grapple but because the instructor in this situation was unable to even protect his position to maximize his advantage.

TKD:ninja2:

[shadow beast]

In my opinion FSD wastes time doing drills that have nothing to do with martial arts training. I've had classes that were entirely dedicated to stretching. Yes, stretching is a good thing, but a whole class, seems like a waste to me. There were also drills where you punch a piece of paper, and try to retract your punch, so that the paper does not get wrinkled. Yup. We also spent entire classes filling out progressive charts and other shit. I hated Lin sil die dar, hard, soft, medium or whatever and salutation is worthless. How much class time focuses on training MA?

FSD also trains many things that just plain do not work in real life. Takedowns, 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9, for example. Phon saus are another gem. Yes, they are lacking in grappling, but also in throwing, and good technique and mechanics in general. After one boxing class, I was surprised to learn that, "Holy shit! I can't punch!"

When we did work combinations, we never surpassed two techniques. FSD loves to boast about "reality", and "street", but two without a chi blast, or touch of death, two technique combos seem lacking.

There is also a good amount of double speak in the system. How many times, have you seen an instructor, make fun of a karate block, (outside in, blocking with forearm. Never took karate so I don't know the name), and then tell you to perform an inner taun sau. Can you see the difference? "We redirect, and they block". Mmm Hmm.

In other schools, I found intructors who spent less time blowing smoke up my ass, and more time teaching me quality martial arts. Enhanced, I urge you to take some free trial classes at other schools, and see for yourself.

good info..



were you a member of the bbc?

[shadow beast]

Listen I'm not trying to be dck, trust me I give it to my students and clients far worse than I give on here. I have a friend who the girl at the gym calls 'muffin' because I've called him that so many times in the gym that she thinks its his nickname. (Listen she wasn't hired for her brains...)

A 24 year old adult? Sorry holmes, you'll be junior for a while but I will repsect your request and not call you that anymore. (Hmm, and I thought calling him Kip would have gotten under his skin more...)



TKD:ninja2:

so, i am guessing you are older, how about i call you an old fart! mwhehehehe kidding.

i call a guy at work buttercup :ohyeah:

[enhanced]

1: does the bbc act as a stand alone membership? meaning i can attend reg classes, -"Yes."

bbc classes,-Yes.

weapons, and sparring classes?- Dunno.

and the bbc membership can REPLACE the normal membership? insted of paying both?- "It did when I joined."

2: how are the sifu's in montreal? personality wise?
"Don't know"


3: for those who took the bbc membership, what did the bbc classes consist of?


"It has really changed, it used to be Sijo's private class where you would go to:"

-train with the really super dedicated
-you could train with those in higher ranks
- learn advaced technique and get to Black sash faster.
-Techniques were picked apart more in depth.
-Intense exercise. Like double the reps and faster for example.
-3 hour meetings were common.
-You really felt like you were going somewhere special.


Now:
-It's pretty much just a regular class now when it held at the downtown location.
-Sometimes something cool will happen. You'll see a technique you would not see in class.
-Techniques are still looked at with more depth.
-Sifu Martin really does express himself very well. An authority on FSD for sure.
-The pagoda meeting were still old school and intense.

If you are into FSD the pagoda BBC classes are the place to be.

Hope this helps.

[shadow beast]

1: does the bbc act as a stand alone membership? meaning i can attend reg classes, -"Yes."

bbc classes,-Yes.

weapons, and sparring classes?- Dunno.

and the bbc membership can REPLACE the normal membership? insted of paying both?- "It did when I joined."

2: how are the sifu's in montreal? personality wise?
"Don't know"


3: for those who took the bbc membership, what did the bbc classes consist of?


"It has really changed, it used to be Sijo's private class where you would go to:"

-train with the really super dedicated
-you could train with those in higher ranks
- learn advaced technique and get to Black sash faster.
-Techniques were picked apart more in depth.
-Intense exercise. Like double the reps and faster for example.
-3 hour meetings were common.
-You really felt like you were going somewhere special.


Now:
-It's pretty much just a regular class now when it held at the downtown location.
-Sometimes something cool will happen. You'll see a technique you would not see in class.
-Techniques are still looked at with more depth.
-Sifu Martin really does express himself very well. An authority on FSD for sure.
-The pagoda meeting were still old school and intense.

If you are into FSD the pagoda BBC classes are the place to be.

Hope this helps.

awesome, thanks..

but wait, are you in montreal? or ontario? cause im in montreal, and isnt the pagoda in ontario? if so, i wouldnt go to those ones, only the meetings at the schools in montreal.