Fang Shen Do

[BoardHitBack]

Then add to that if you do admit it then others will take your admission as a personal victory.

Not over you. Over FSD. Over dangerously inexpert training by unqualified instructors. Over a mcdojo. Not over you.

You might get flamed. People are just trying to beat smash and grab that victory. That victory that isn't over you. Its for you.

[Askari]

BhB has typed the correct.

[Gnosis]

Fang Shen Do is horrible, its guys dont spar, and they just talk shit in secret, its big in quebec, garbage though

[Stringfellow]

Not over you. Over FSD. Over dangerously inexpert training by unqualified instructors. Over a mcdojo. Not over you.

You might get flamed. People are just trying to beat smash and grab that victory. That victory that isn't over you. Its for you.

Some of the truest words ever spoken on this thread. Very insightful, BHB.

I too was worried about looking stupid, but found that my friends (even those still training there) were completely understanding. And those that weren't, well they were never really my friends anyway. And when those where I'm at now here my story, just about every one of them has a similar one. It's tough to face, but once you get past it you can rediscover the joy of training martial arts in a truly positive environment.

Ok, group hug everybody.
:5grouphug

[Askari]

You know what this thread needs? Somebody that does Cardio Boxing to talk about sparring. Thats what it needs!




Enhanced, and other FSD students, it is not if you have been in a Bullshido Dojo, but what you do when you realize that you are in one that counts.

[TKD Black Belt]

TKD Black Belt,
Man to man I am not an instructor I'm just a regular dude.

- and as such I'm happy to have pushed and poked a little and hopefully you do do some more critical thought.

Some peole did'nt like it when I said I was testing out some arguments on here to see what stood up to public scrutiny. What can I say? I'm a loyal guy and not about to turn on people I've know for years.

- Hell I was the MC at a buddy's wedding a few years back and he's still part of the group I left. I still get calls from my old instructor letting me know how him and his family are doing. I don't train with them but I still love them as family. The fact that you sound afriad to leave speaks volumes of the relationship you have with your instructors.

Of course where I say loyal I'm well aware that others will say stupid, but I can't give in without a fight. At this point I'm getting exhaused.

- Where is your instructor's loyalty to you? Jacque Patenaude should be cutting you a cheque for all the defending of him you've done on this thread. I don't say that in a malicious way either, I find it comendable (albeit from my point of view misguided).

Some people, like I've said before have been real jerks. I know that their whole mission on here is to make FSD fall. Well they're NEVER gonna do that by treating people like pricks. [/QUOTE]

I've had to answer your questions as honestly as I could or I'm just lying to myself and others who read this, but most importantly to myself.[/

I owe it to myself to discover the truth. Even if I've known it all along.

But you yourself said you belonged to a McDojo for years, you must know how hard it is to admit that to yourself. It makes you feel stupid.

- How many times did Charlie Brown let Lucy hold the football for him? At some point in time you have to realise that respect goes both ways.

Then add to that if you do admit it then others will take your admission as a personal victory.

I spent years in that school training hard and really giving it my all.

Anyway TKD you sound like an alright guy and I'd probably learn a lot from you in your school, thanks for the debate.

- Thanks for the compliment I do truly appreciate it. If you're ever in Western Canada shoot me a PM we'll hook you up (hell I'll even look for a Wing Chun school for you :confused:)

Here's my reason for coming out of my corner swinging (and as usual someone has already hinted around this point but I'm going to make it again.)

Let's say your daughter/mom/sister/girlfriend decides to look for a MA school to study self defense with because she's feeling that she might need it. Let's say she knows nothing of schools and has never been on Bullshido. How would she pick her school? How good is FSD at convincing people that they should study there?

I will never teach a self defense course that is less than 4 classes of 2-3 hours a class. Even then I end the course by yanking away any sense of false confidence by showing the group how pathetically illprepared they are to deal with a live and ugly street situation. Does that mean I'm a bad coach? No, it means I'm a realistc coach. Only by continual training in a system or style that is tested and proven effective will someone be anything close to ready for an SD situation, and even then you never know how someone will react.

When someone with 5-6 weeks of Jiu Jitsu can take down and control an FSD instructor with little problems ask yourself if you want this school around to teach SD to anyone else.

TKD

[Gnosis]

- and as such I'm happy to have pushed and poked a little and hopefully you do do some more critical thought.



- Hell I was the MC at a buddy's wedding a few years back and he's still part of the group I left. I still get calls from my old instructor letting me know how him and his family are doing. I don't train with them but I still love them as family. The fact that you sound afriad to leave speaks volumes of the relationship you have with your instructors.



- Where is your instructor's loyalty to you? Jacque Patenaude should be cutting you a cheque for all the defending of him you've done on this thread. I don't say that in a malicious way either, I find it comendable (albeit from my point of view misguided).

Some people, like I've said before have been real jerks. I know that their whole mission on here is to make FSD fall. Well they're NEVER gonna do that by treating people like pricks.

- How many times did Charlie Brown let Lucy hold the football for him? At some point in time you have to realise that respect goes both ways.



- Thanks for the compliment I do truly appreciate it. If you're ever in Western Canada shoot me a PM we'll hook you up (hell I'll even look for a Wing Chun school for you :confused:)

Here's my reason for coming out of my corner swinging (and as usual someone has already hinted around this point but I'm going to make it again.)

Let's say your daughter/mom/sister/girlfriend decides to look for a MA school to study self defense with because she's feeling that she might need it. Let's say she knows nothing of schools and has never been on Bullshido. How would she pick her school? How good is FSD at convincing people that they should study there?

I will never teach a self defense course that is less than 4 classes of 2-3 hours a class. Even then I end the course by yanking away any sense of false confidence by showing the group how pathetically illprepared they are to deal with a live and ugly street situation. Does that mean I'm a bad coach? No, it means I'm a realistc coach. Only by continual training in a system or style that is tested and proven effective will someone be anything close to ready for an SD situation, and even then you never know how someone will react.

When someone with 5-6 weeks of Jiu Jitsu can take down and control an FSD instructor with little problems ask yourself if you want this school around to teach SD to anyone else.

TKD[/quote]it sucks guys, lets BURY THIS THREAD OKADY!:XXreindee

[madmax]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+Silva&pl=true

Not that every freakin' minute of this tape isn't valuable but I would direct your attention to the 7:12(ish) mark of the video. Oh and in case you've been living in a box for the last few years the gentleman in question is Wanderlei (pronounced with a 'V' sound) Silva. Wanderlei, or Wandy as he's known, also have a rather particular nasty nick name, The Axe Murderer.

I remember hearing a fighter who went toe to toe with him in Pride say, 'When he looks at you it feels like he's not just there to fight you, he's going to fight your whole corner and then go find your family.' I think he gets the true title of being a 'badass' (thankfully sJP wears black so that if he ever faced off against Wandy you wouldn't notice him peeing himself.)

Anyway, the point is to address Haru the Larger's point:

"In class, however, it rarely occurs that a sifu will spar with a student. When it does occur, depending on the sifu, they either take it easy on you or pound the crap out of you. Either way it doesn't seem like a particularly valuable experience."

Wandy ends all his training camps by sparring with everyone. You look at the tape and tell me if he's 'taking it easy' or 'beating the crap' out of people. Now keep in mind he isn't known for his coaching ability but it seems to me that he rises to the level of his opponent and by doing so gives them a learning experience that is not only valuable but challenging.

Please, all Fang Shen Don't students, realise that your situation is so unbelievably out of the norm for any school. Not only that but there are demonstratably better fighters out there who do not treat their students the way you guys get treated.

TKD

Accountability - You know it goes along with responsibility!

Very good clip. They also seem to be enjoying themselves while learning. Isn't this the true essence of learning?

[TKD Black Belt]

I just think it illustrates a point nicely.

Wanderlei Silva = Pride Champion (both weight class and I'm pretty sure he's one a GP or two) and he can take the time to roll to the level of guys he probably just met that day.

sJP = Kung Foolery who apparently can't spar with students without either providing no competition what so ever (well he was a white belt so I wasn't really trying) or beating the living piss out of someone.

Something to think about, eh?

TKD

PS - I'm pretty sure Wandy didn't ask anyone to smell his shit that weekend....

[Cdnronin]

As this seems to be drifting into a training thread, how can any art improve in a vaccuum? If you seal the club off from outside competition or influences, the techniques appear stagnant, despite the multiple black belts in multiple styles that the founder has acquired(which comes into question by his son-in-law) not having had any discernable effect or influence on the art, as stated by several former and current members, where do the improvements come from?

FSD appears to teach and stress agressiveness, a valuable concept that is missing in many clubs, but at the expense of effective techniques. If the agression was combined with, as an example, a boxing methodology, or wrestling combined with boxing, or (complete paradigm shift here folks) BJJ and Muay Thai, you would have a wrecking machine.

Agree or disagree?

[TKD Black Belt]

Strongly disagree. I also think that as opposed to drifting this thread has in fact landed on a vital flaw in the Fang Shen Do system.

You can twin turbo a Yugo and add a Nitrous kit but you're still driving a Yugo. The example of training in a vacuum is apropos as well in that the level of trainng is only limited by turning inwards as opposed to seeking beyond. Like Musashi, perhaps Fang Shen Do needs to leave their current comfort zone and seek out challenges in order to achieve that next level.

Unfortunately this is where the parallels end in that Musashi was recognized by his peers as being superior long before he felt the need to push himsef to the next level.

TKD

[Cdnronin]

Perhaps too much verbiage got in the way of what I was trying to say. The one positive I see in FSD is the emphasis on agression. If that emphasis was combined with the superior techniques of boxing, wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai, you would have a monster. Taking the one positive training aspect(as I see it) from FSD and transferring it to tried and tested superior techniques would not leave you will the martial equivalent of a Yugo, it would be more like siphoning the gas out of a Yugo, taking the only thing of value. Better analogy?

Of course, then you would end up with something like the Hammer house.

[TKD Black Belt]

LMFAO, half way through your first sentence Mark 'The Hammer' Coleman and Phil Bologna came to mind.

TKD

PS - Looks like Gerry forgot to take his meds today, he's on a bit of a tear again. I figure since he claims not to be involved in this whole FSD thing he'll never read this anyways.

[Stringfellow]

I feel left out. Was I the only one that Gerry never PM'd? Gerry, why no love for me?
:llorar:

[bummer]

You have indeed found the weakness of the system. Sad thing is, I don't think JP wants this particular "problem" solved, since it has allowed him to falsely convict students of the effectiveness of FSD. Add to that the incredible amounts of money he's banking, and you've got a damn good reason not to change. The solution is quite simple : students who want to develop combat abilities MUST leave and move on to another art/academy. Others who simply want to improve their physical conditioning should check out ordinary gyms and leave as well.

Another issue I didn't adress in my initial post is the schedule : FSD is open for business only 4 days a week for an hour during the day and one during the night, which makes it relatively hard to get a good workout. 1-1:30 just isn't enough. In order to get extra hours you need to join the Black Belt Club, or pay an extra for sparring classes and/or weapons classes. Plus the limited hours make it unaccessible. I actually can't believe no one has pointed this out yet.