Fang Shen Do

[It is Fake]

Since we are slowly turning the thread in a traiining direction.

Ask yourself this.

Have you been TOLD it is disrespectful to want to spar/fight your Grand Master/Master/Instructor?

Let me point out the Fallacy in this line of logic

M. ALi=Larry Holmes
E.Holyfield=Riddick Bowe
Jose Vargas=Fernando Vargas


These are all champions beaten by former sparring partners.

[broken fingers]

i honestly couldnt see my self beating the crap out of my instructor, he has been my instructor since i was 12, and even though he stilll can catch me in a good swing, i know that i am getting to the point where im just too fast. but its kinda like you don't wanna win. i understand beating the champion, your friend, or a sparring partner, but i guess i just don't want that sense of power. like you dont go for certain moves on him out of sheer respect.

being able to beat your instructor=/= your a better fighter than him/her. like Royce vs. Helio, royce aint gonna armbar the shit out of him...

[It is Fake]

i honestly couldnt see my self beating the crap out of my instructor, he has been my instructor since i was 12, and even though he stilll can catch me in a good swing, i know that i am getting to the point where im just too fast. but its kinda like you don't wanna win. i understand beating the champion, your friend, or a sparring partner, but i guess i just don't want that sense of power. like you dont go for certain moves on him out of sheer respect.

being able to beat your instructor=/= your a better fighter than him/her. like Royce vs. Helio, royce aint gonna armbar the shit out of him...

Wow good to know you train McDojo. Well don't ever try to become a MMA fighter.

This little paragraph explains much of your posting style.

i just don't want that sense of power.

What power? You just admitted you wouldn't train to be better than your instructor. So, you will always be stagnant. If you do seem to get better you will hold yourself back. So, you will never succeed.

You will run in to people that fit all of your above criteria. You wonder why no one respects you MMA Kid. This is why.


Are you reading the thread or posting BS to get banned?

It has nothing to do with the fact that beating an instructor makes you a great fighter.

No one has said that anywhere in this thread. It means the teacher is training you honestly. It means the teacher isn't holding any information back from the student.


If you train to beat the best you may become the best.

Is this going to work for everyone? No

Will you have a top school of fighters with everyone pushing themselve to the limit? Yes.

[Askari]

he has been my instructor since i was 12, and even though he stilll can catch me in a good swing, i know that i am getting to the point where im just too fast. but its kinda like you don't wanna win.

I think that it is entirely ok to be a better fighter then your coach. Look at Robert Follis coaching Randy Couture. Couture is the better fighter but would have been nowhere without Follis.

You are also going to end up with older instructors. I had an instructor that was in his late 50's had a few motor cycle accidents, and plain just couldnt fight like he used to or wanted too. Did this stop him from getting on the mat and taking lumps? No! Did this stop me from learning from him? Never!

There is a big difference between the Follis-Couture relationship and what goes on inside strange kung-fu schools. I remember taking a kung-fu class and taking sh!t for going hard against a senior student and punking the guy - I was unecquivically told that you could not go hard against your seniors becuase they were the seniors. For some reason in strange kung-fu schools the instructors become untouchable. This logic completely escapes me. If they are actually higher skilled then they should be ok with someone going hard on them.

The Fang Shen Do Kool-Aid drinkers post regularily about how skilled they think their Sifu's are. Yet we have also heard of a guy with 6 weeks of Jiu-Jitsu who punked the top FSD guy.

It is very easy to look skilled to someone who has never seen another martial art and is being actively discouraged from fighting/competing with other styles.

Someone posted earlier: If the most dangerous opponent you have ever seen go hard against your instructor or his top fighters/students is a white belt/sash who just joined the club, then there are issues.

[broken fingers]

not that i don't want to be better than my instructor, but that i won't beat him up.

[Askari]

Hi Broken Fingers,

Ok, I think I understand better. No one is suggesting you beat anyone up. It is just training after all. Its not a competition.

In class it should never matter who wins or looses. Its the training that counts.

[broken fingers]

yea, thats true...

[madmax]

Also Enhanced,
Your instructors names do not appear on either FcFighter.com or Sherdog listings of all MMA events. Ipso Facto - they did not compete in MMA.

It is entirely possible that they did compete in some sort of other Full Contact event, which speaks well for them, but the claim of MMA is pretty much shot down by simply consulting the records.

Also, have you ever - in an after class conversation - asked to see the criminal records or certificates of any of your instructors? At this point, certificates signed by the self-promoted Grand Puba, Sijo JP probably dont really cut it.

Perhaps ask to see JP's certificates. Go for it. I've seen the certificates of everyone who has ever been my instructor.

You as a student and customer have the absolute right to know what you are buying.

Askari, I really like your logic and questions. In my opinion, if you asked to see JP's certificates, he would fly off the handle, freek out and probably "escort" you out of his McDojo.

[Haru_the_larger]

Since we are slowly turning the thread in a traiining direction.

Ask yourself this.

Have you been TOLD it is disrespectful to want to spar/fight your Grand Master/Master/Instructor?

I can never remember a time that we were told it is disrespectful to want to spar any of these people. The opportunity to do so is rare, however. At at least two training camps since I started FSD, students were given the opportunity to spar with Sifu Pat. In class, however, it rarely occurs that a sifu will spar with a student. When it does occur, depending on the sifu, they either take it easy on you or pound the crap out of you. Either way it doesn't seem like a particularly valuable experience.

[Askari]

I was just thinking about other first generation Bruce Lee students that sJP (sijo is his first name after all) could have approached for training. There's Jerry Poteet for example. sJP could have approached himself to give himself some legitimacy.

Nah, never would have happened, Poteet likes people to come with an empty cup and a willingness to learn.

[TKD Black Belt]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+Silva&pl=true

Not that every freakin' minute of this tape isn't valuable but I would direct your attention to the 7:12(ish) mark of the video. Oh and in case you've been living in a box for the last few years the gentleman in question is Wanderlei (pronounced with a 'V' sound) Silva. Wanderlei, or Wandy as he's known, also have a rather particular nasty nick name, The Axe Murderer.

I remember hearing a fighter who went toe to toe with him in Pride say, 'When he looks at you it feels like he's not just there to fight you, he's going to fight your whole corner and then go find your family.' I think he gets the true title of being a 'badass' (thankfully sJP wears black so that if he ever faced off against Wandy you wouldn't notice him peeing himself.)

Anyway, the point is to address Haru the Larger's point:

"In class, however, it rarely occurs that a sifu will spar with a student. When it does occur, depending on the sifu, they either take it easy on you or pound the crap out of you. Either way it doesn't seem like a particularly valuable experience."

Wandy ends all his training camps by sparring with everyone. You look at the tape and tell me if he's 'taking it easy' or 'beating the crap' out of people. Now keep in mind he isn't known for his coaching ability but it seems to me that he rises to the level of his opponent and by doing so gives them a learning experience that is not only valuable but challenging.

Please, all Fang Shen Don't students, realise that your situation is so unbelievably out of the norm for any school. Not only that but there are demonstratably better fighters out there who do not treat their students the way you guys get treated.

TKD

Accountability - You know it goes along with responsibility!

[It is Fake]

I can never remember a time that we were told it is disrespectful to want to spar any of these people. The opportunity to do so is rare, however. At at least two training camps since I started FSD, students were given the opportunity to spar with Sifu Pat. In class, however, it rarely occurs that a sifu will spar with a student. When it does occur, depending on the sifu, they either take it easy on you or pound the crap out of you. Either way it doesn't seem like a particularly valuable experience.

Ahhhh, the sparring as punishment. You are right it isn't a valuable experience and that is very Sad.

[red-dragon]

I was just thinking about other first generation Bruce Lee students that sJP (sijo is his first name after all) could have approached for training. There's Jerry Poteet for example. sJP could have approached himself to give himself some legitimacy.

Nah, never would have happened, Poteet likes people to come with an empty cup and a willingness to learn.

Askari, very interesting indeed! Where did this thought come from??

[Askari]

Where did this thought come from??

Hi RD,

I received a PM that sJP did some legitimacy shoping, but was shot down. I am only to speculate as to whom he could have gone too. Its not a big list, so Poteet jumped to mind.

Any light someone could shed on this would help.
:fist:

[enhanced]

TKD Black Belt,
Man to man I am not an instructor I'm just a regular dude.

Some peole did'nt like it when I said I was testing out some arguments on here to see what stood up to public scrutiny. What can I say? I'm a loyal guy and not about to turn on people I've know for years.
Of course where I say loyal I'm well aware that others will say stupid, but I can't give in without a fight. At this point I'm getting exhaused.

Some people, like I've said before have been real jerks. I know that their whole mission on here is to make FSD fall. Well they're NEVER gonna do that by treating people like pricks.

I've had to answer your questions as honestly as I could or I'm just lying to myself and others who read this, but most importantly to myself.

I owe it to myself to discover the truth. Even if I've known it all along.

But you yourself said you belonged to a McDojo for years, you must know how hard it is to admit that to yourself. It makes you feel stupid.
Then add to that if you do admit it then others will take your admission as a personal victory.

I spent years in that school training hard and really giving it my all.

Anyway TKD you sound like an alright guy and I'd probably learn a lot from you in your school, thanks for the debate.

I'm probably not gonna answer anymore questions. I can't see any point in it.
The rest of you guys can gloat now.