Fang Shen Do

[TKD Black Belt]

Hmm, Stringfellow does this mean you've mastered Secret Elbow Strike 12?

TKD

"You remember that scene in the Bruce Lee vs Chuck Norris fight? I always wanted to rip my gi top off half way through a fight and yell, 'NOW I MEAN BUSINESS!' or something to that affect!"

[marcdscott]

Shawarma,

"Not to belittle the memory of your friend, but you do realize that your friend who has "very conveniently passed away" (some would say) is not really a very credheible source of information on this."

My friends were all top students of JP's, some of them were his first black sashes before his son's ever got that rank. I got to hear a lot of the dirt.

Chris A. was the student I had in mind when I talked about tire slashing, anyone who was a FSD/WCD student in the early nineties would know who he was.

[TKD Black Belt]

Whooo-hooo Enhanced, didn't want you to forget our questions....

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...&postcount=638

TKD

PS - How do I simplify that down to just a link?

[madmax]

This is exactly what I noticed once I left. In FSD being better simply meant that you could go harder. My stance was always "proper" and I executed all of my techniques exactly as I'd been taught. Using this approach in my first sparring match after FSD I got owned and owned good.

Once I threw out the 11 points to remember about my stance, and threw the occasional kick from my rear leg (in FSD nearly all kicks are from the lead), and got myself out of that "xenophobic paradigmatic mindset" as TKD so appropriately put it, I actually felt something come back that I hadn't felt in years - instinct. And this time, instead of fighting it, I went with it. My fighting has been improving ever since, and I'm certainly more adaptable. Sometimes I'll pull a move in a fight and I don't even know what it is - I'll just make it up. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. either way I learn something new.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't drill specific techniques, and there are still important principles to keep in mind (e.g. not giving up your back, keeping your guard up, etc.), and repetitive drilling will make a given technique more natural (and faster) in a fight. The difference is that now I'm free to mix and match and play around as I see fit, instead of having to follow the recipes that FSD laid out. I mean, they always talked about experimenting, but you never really were given an opportunity. In drills, you had to follow the pattern, period. In sparring, you might get lucky enough to get a partner who's on the same wavelength, but just as often the other guy just wants to show how hard he can go, and so you have to stick to he basics.

Hey Stringfellow, don't tell me you missed the proper stance seminar. For only 60 days of depriving yourself of your $3.00 cup of coffee per day, you could have attended. And don't miss the proper punching seminar.... Same price!!! Oh, and please tell a friend of the no strings attached seminar.

These people will NEVER share their secrets. Why would they teach you how to get better than them? They are very insecure people.

Also, how much money has JP's family ever spent on any FSD training. Easy for these people to guilt you in spending money, when they never spent a dime.

[red-dragon]

hello madmax.... do you have a bone to pick with JP????? let it all out, we are listening.

[red-dragon]

Shawarma,

"Not to belittle the memory of your friend, but you do realize that your friend who has "very conveniently passed away" (some would say) is not really a very credheible source of information on this."

My friends were all top students of JP's, some of them were his first black sashes before his son's ever got that rank. I got to hear a lot of the dirt.

Chris A. was the student I had in mind when I talked about tire slashing, anyone who was a FSD/WCD student in the early nineties would know who he was.

Hey marcdscott, did you know S. Fenn??

[Crazy Mount]

So many people here have such great points to consider. Stringfellow, I know exactly where you're coming from.

TKD I really enjoy reading your posts. You seem like you would be a great instructor to learn from - your philosophy is sincere and to the point. This was a problem with FSD as they always wanted to seem mystical. There's one particular instructor who would always use the comment "you'll see that when you join the BBC", "join the masters club and you'll get to learn that", "ahhh, come to the speed seminar and you'll learn all about that" etc.... These things always came up and I just cringe thinking of it now.

I feel you've been fair with enhanced and I still await his answers to the questions you posted.

I think enhanced though should realize that the whole FSD money thing is by far too much to ignore. The prices are ridiculous and even many of the students still training say this. They don't say this anywhere around instructors or in the school because they'll be placed on the non-compliant students list. Every school I guess is free to charge what they want and if people are willing to pay for it then hell, I guess I was duped that way to. It's just such a shock when you finally find out that you could have got the same training and more for less the price with no strings attached (no clubs, or secret meetings, or expensive seminars etc...) that to me is just a load of crap.

[madmax]

hello madmax.... do you have a bone to pick with JP????? let it all out, we are listening.

His dog took it, shit it out and now they're sniffing it.

[red-dragon]

His dog took it, shit it out and now they're sniffing it.

Do you have any other fond memories of JP or his dogs?

[madmax]

Do you have any other fond memories of JP or his dogs?

Red-dragon, you'll have to join my special class. All secrets are revealed. It's $600.00 with 10% off. So the cost is $660.00 (just don't eat for 3 months). I'm the instructor. I'll babble on about whatever goes through my head at the time. You stare at me with that enthusiastic glare in your eye. I'll talk about how hard I pushed myself when I used to train. Now I don't do shit.... Exept the sniffing part. Oh, and you get to spar while I watch you get the shit kicked out of you by one of my senior instructors. This will help you overcome your fear.

[red-dragon]

Red-dragon, you'll have to join my special class. All secrets are revealed. It's $600.00 with 10% off. So the cost is $660.00 (just don't eat for 3 months). I'm the instructor. I'll babble on about whatever goes through my head at the time. You stare at me with that enthusiastic glare in your eye. I'll talk about how hard I pushed myself when I used to train. Now I don't do shit.... Exept the sniffing part. Oh, and you get to spar while I watch you get the shit kicked out of you by one of my senior instructors. This will help you overcome your fear.

hey madmax, I was more interested in the "building a dojo for you for free seminar", with no strings attached, how much does that one cost??

[madmax]

hey madmax, I was more interested in the "building a dojo for you for free seminar", with no strings attached, how much does that one cost??

Learn the shovel and the hammer principle... Wow, that's priceless. Instead, why don't you join my instructor program. The cost is $4000.00. I'll throw in a new t-shirt a different colored sash and a pyjama. You teach, I'll sit back behind my counter open a beer and develop calluses on my ass while you do all the work. COUNT YOURSELF LUCKY I'M EVEN CONSIDERING YOU FOR THIS GREAT ONE WAY OPPORTUNITY.

[Askari]

Students Rights

Anyone considering training in any Martial Art should be aware of some basic rights. I have posted the following ideas at disparate points in these threads, however I thought them worth repeating for those recently joining us.

I can walk up to anyone I have ever had as an instructor and ask him or her who their instructor was and look at their certificates. This is normal. If you can not do this with your instructor then you have a problem that is a lot greater then your hurt fealings because you are just now realizing you were duped.

Think about it, can you really ask Jacques Patenaude as your instructor to see all of the certificates from his instructors and his history? Hint, the certificate should not be coloured in with crayon and magic marker.

Also any legitimate instructor would be more then happy to show you his completely clear criminal record check that he can pick up from the Police station. These checks only cost him a few dollars and it is a fellony to create a fraudulant one. I suggest that anyone contemplating any form of Martial training consider checking their instructors history in this fashion.

This is not my original idea, see 24fightingchickens.

[enhanced]

[QUOTE=TKD Black Belt]Enhanced, these questions will come back to haunt you as I am very serious about persons being involved in McDojo's and useless arts. I have my own reasons which I can go into should you like, but as a recap here are my questions!

I would like.

1.) Training the same static situations with the same partners and then (as more than one person has commented) a sparring session in which these skills are not utilized does not help to learn them. I've seen BJJ clubs spend an hour on an armbar and then spar with the rule being you can only finish the match using an armbar.

Actually I think I did talk about this one. maybe I'm wrong. Anyway...
Yeah if that's all you do you won't get to good. But that has'nt been my experience with FSD to be honest.

Sure at first when I did'nt know a pak sao from a die jeong but, as you move along and get better and into higher ranks the resistance is increased and sparring gets tougher because you can handle it.
The problen is that some guys forget that they are learning how to fight and they just get comfortabvle going through the motions.
That can hold a student back as well. If you don't have a good partner who challenges you you're just jerking yourself off.
Also if guys don't show up to class on a regular basis then you're always dealing with fresh guys who need to start from the basics and that holds things up big time. That is a big problem to tell you the truth.

True some blame belongs on the instructors shoulders because they are the one incharge but ulimatley if you don't try out the techniques you've been taught you're only holding yourself back. I've never been scolded for trying to improve, quite the opposite. I've had encouragement when I've tried to step things up and use technique and not just brute strength.

2.) Competition. When was the last time FSD competed outside of the walls and rules of FSD? Like I said, I have fought well outside my comfort zone and can speak directly to the effectiveness of say a 'jumping 360 spin kick' in a 'real' fight.

- Fair enough you don't have to compete, but what about your instructors? In BJJ your belt rank is tied into (amoung other things) your level of competition.

You have a point for sure. What is the measuring stick of FSD instructors? I don't know.
I've spoken to both Sifu Scott and Sif Pat about there bouts. Not in a bragging way, they were just shooting the shit after class.
I've seen the newspaper article on the walls of the schools. I really have no doubt they did what they say they did.
(Can I prove it, no. But just because you guys can't prove they did either does not mean they did'nt. You just have'nt been given the proof yet. I know I'll take a beating over that but until you can prove they did not compete the jury is still out...)


3.) Exposure to new and often contradictory ideas. This is probably the hardest thing for any school to do effectively but it is the best thing for the students and instructors. I remember training with my last coach in JJJ and one of our black belts who was going through the police training brought in 10 guys who were going through the program with him. These guys were all trained fighters in other styles but my coach felt it was good practice for us to train with and possibly lose to these guys.

Hey I agree to be honest, I love learning.

Why do you think I've hung around here for so long? Some of you guys have said some rude things. But this in the end is entertaining to me.
Also to be honest this way I can see if my arguements stand up.
Despite what some of you may think I'm not stupid.
However I'm not gonna turn my back on peole that I've know for years just beacuse some people on the internet have had a bad experience.
Trial by fire.

There is no doubt that FSD think the are better than aybody else. I've seen that said and read it too.
Why would they bring in other schools if they are the best...
Well what can I say about that? I'll defend their self defense because I really beleive it good but to say you are the best and discourage students from trying other styles. I do not agree with that.

4.) A belief that your 'shit does in fact stink'. No one is infallible and its the humility that above all give an instructor the edge to push his students.

- Have you seen your instructors demonstrate this and how? As an example, I have had beginners that I was training sweep and almost submit me. I enjoy that as 'If you never fall, you're not pushing yourself.'

I've never done that to an instructor no. I've done things with assistant instructors on tests but never to an instructor.
To be honest I've never even considered it. That might take some additional thought.
But I've never felt that an instructor thought they were better than me either.

Hope this helps!

Sure did!

[Askari]

Hi Enhanced,

Can you put quotations around TKD BB's questions? Its hard to pull all of your mistakes out of the clutter.

I'll hit a few that are a bit obvious and use the quotations:

but until you can prove they did not compete the jury is still out..

Until you prove I am not your father, you are still an orange.

Absense of a negative is not the presence of proof.

True some blame belongs on the instructors shoulders because they are the one in charge

Actually, all of the blame falls on the instructors shoulders, they are being paid to make you better, if they cant, go somewhere else.

Also if guys don't show up to class on a regular basis then you're always dealing with fresh guys who need to start from the basics and that holds things up big time. That is a big problem to tell you the truth.

Ever wonder why guys stop showing up to class?

Also to be honest this way I can see if my arguements stand up.
Despite what some of you may think I'm not stupid.

Until you can prove that you did not in fact fail the intelligence test, the jury is still out, see my point above.

I've never done that to an instructor no. I've done things with assistant instructors on tests but never to an instructor.
To be honest I've never even considered it. That might take some additional thought.

Somewhere on one of these threads someone noted that one of the Fang Shen Do Sifus (I believe it was a guy named Martin) was taken down and ground and pounded by one of his students who secretly went and took about 6 weeks of Jiu-Jitsu. Food for thought.

I can go all out against any of my Jiu-Jitsu instructors, and anyone who trains with me can go all out against me. It is not an ego issue because it is just plain fun. Training should be fun. If you are worried about your instructors reaction to you going all out against him, then you have a serious problem.

Now for a little story:

A poster on this board started life with the screen name "Fang Shen Do" he was then encouraged to go and spar with someone who had never done FSD. He found such an animal, and now has a new screen name and trains MT/BJJ/MMA.

End of little story.