Fang Shen Do

[TKD Black Belt]

- "Hey Pot!" "Yes kettle?" "Dude, you're black!"

?

- Perhaps a bit preemptive but based on this post I seem to have been on target.

I don't know you either and I hope I never meet you you don't sound very smart.

My only fear would be when I smash all your teeth out of your mouth I would cut my knuckles and get one of your low life degenerate diseases.
Shut your fucking mouth.
Do not disrespect me I've never been disrespectful to you or anybody on here.
I don't deserve that sort of bullshit.

- Actually both in the previous post and this one you have implied that you would keep the fight standing, I'm just politely telling you that you can't. Okay, maybe I wasn't so polite about it. I'm sorry if I insulted you, it was mean and not very nice of me. (hold on I'll do a couple of pushups to make up for it).

- Someone from FSD familiar with the legal ramifications of assault!?!
You think just because I train in FSD I can't read? You really generalize to much You know that?
Instead of a conversation you are looking for a fight conrads! Welcome to grade 5.

- Um, I'm going to suggest you re-read what I wrote in relation to your quote. You'll find that I was making a reference to a scenario within the FSD culture. I'll try to go slower from now on.

You don't know to much about the law do you? You can fight back but only to a point. Then you cross the line and can be charged, it does'nt matter if you were defending yourself if you are deemed to have escalated the situation.

- Nope, and by the posts in conjunction with your comment regarding assault and SD, I'm not the only one who feels this way. See the Canadian legal system is designed to protect the 'victim'. If you 'knocked my teeth out', you'd be the attacker. If I 'maintain control of the situation by use of lower level physical intervention' I'm the 'victim'. You with me so far? I'll draw you some pictures, okay?

How? If you're tied up on the ground it leaves you open to attacks that you never see coming because you have tunnel vision, that's what happens in a fight
If you are on the ground and tied up you can easily be stomped. It just that simple.

- See this is the non-grappling fallacy (sorry a fallacy is an error in belief). The thought is that once I hit the ground I ignore everyone around me. Hmm, I guess I wouldn't work very long as a bouncer if I took that approach now would I. Hey I got it, what it I could submit you while remaining standing!

You're telling me you're gonna submit somebody in a street fight? What ever.

- Yes. In fact, a few people. See I don't want an assault charge so I prefer to end fights in ways that don't end with me standing over someone who's teeth are all out across the sidewalk.

Like I've ALWAYS said since I showed up here it's important to know how to grapple, I'vernever said otherwise, but some of you guys watch to many Sporting events on TV.
In the UFC you can't crush testicles or gouge eyes. Grappling is great, I love it too but it's not the end all of fighting.

Now who Black?

- Actually the 'grapple' is 'the end of the fight'. Anyone who told you that you can end a fight with strikes was lying to you. Don't get me wrong I've seen people get lucky in fights with a punch but that's all it is. And usually those fights are skewed in one person's favour (ie. the sucker punch). But I'll leave you with this thought, a good friend of mine is a boxer. He got sucker punched at the bar by someone who was planning on 'knocking his teeth out'. I thought this little guy was going to pee himself when Shane straightened his glasses and turned to face him.

TKD

"I'm too pretty to fight and I'm also too pretty to date your sister!"

[dictionary69]

Where are these posts going? One of you stated alot of bla bla and I have to agree that alot of you are doing just that and it's getting pretty boring to read. TKD you sound like a nice little guy who doesn't know what a fight is really but that's ok cause you will never get it no matter what training you do. Cheers but it's getting boring on here!

[PeterPantsless]

TKD you sound like a nice little guy who doesn't know what a fight is really but that's ok cause you will never get it no matter what training you do. Cheers but it's getting boring on here!

Get what exactly? The secret to Phon Sau 15? Tell us what it is that you "got" from your two years, taking/teaching FSD.

[TKD Black Belt]

Where are these posts going? One of you stated alot of bla bla and I have to agree that alot of you are doing just that and it's getting pretty boring to read. TKD you sound like a nice little guy who doesn't know what a fight is really but that's ok cause you will never get it no matter what training you do. Cheers but it's getting boring on here!

Well, enhanced weighed in and sparked some conversation regarding the reality of fighting. You know fighting, what happens outside of the gym. I actually enjoy reading the back and forth, we've had some good threats and some well strung together thoughts. I'm a little disappointed in the spelling and grammar from some of the FSD proponents however, they may be Francophone and I'm sure my french would be nowhere as good.

As for the assertion that I don't know what a fight is, I'm curious to know how you derived that? Please enlighten me that I may properly attempt to convey that more clearly from now on.

TKD

Oh, out of curiosity do you know what differentiates me from your sijo? I'm listed on FCFighter.com.

"I'm gonna beat his ass just for wearing silk into the ring..." - Meet the Ground

[Crazy Mount]

Hello all!

I've been reading these threads for some time now and I finally caved in and registered so I could join the rant/research/insults/stupidity and most importantly the truth seeking that I believe was the reason Askari started this thread. My compliments to whoever Stringfellow is as the article he wrote is absolutely fabulous. When reading it I can most certainly agree with 99.9% of it as I used to be an X-FSD'er who achieved high ranks.

Now to address everything else it would take the space of say a small book like JP's fang shen do secrets vol.1, so I'm going to refrain from going all the way back and just start in here.

First, I have a friend in Ottawa who I know went to the 2005 summer training camp. As soon as I can get a hold of him I'll find out if the dog sniffing story is true. It really doesn't surprise me though. For some reason I can't get a hold of my friend right now, he might of moved, but I'll keep working on it.

Second, someone just recently mentioned a challange in France between a FSD and Sambo crowd. I know the individual who is in France teaching this stuff. He's actually a Professor at a University there who trained at Martin's school in Montreal while he was doing his PH.D. He's a green sash in the FSD system and he doesn't officially have a FSD school. He only teaches it free to the people who want to learn. JP doesn't like that too much though I bet and would rather have the guy quit being a Prof. and own 49% of a FSD school. Ha ha ha ha, do they think this guy is stupid? I wish I could get a hold of him and tell him about bullshido, but I wouldn't know where to begin.

Third, I think there's some individuals on this site that need to have their eyes opened. There's only one thing you need to know and that is, if a style of MA is claiming that they are the be all of all other MA's (ex. FSD) and telling their students that everything they need to know is found at this particular school (ex.FSD) then those students should seriously look elswhere. They should go and find out for themselves why their school (ex. FSD) is claiming this. It wouldn't take long to find out the truth. There are simply too many secrets at FSD and their reasoning is to keep as many students in their box, preventing them from seeking the truth by use of aggression, or psychological NLP brain-washing. In my opinion they're there to suck as much money out of their students as possible before they find out the truth. They are not there to help individuals grow as people or even give them an effective way to defend themselves. In my opinion they're very selfish. There are a handfull that are decent fighters but they can't teach very well, because most of the students there are lousy fighters. The day I quit and started pursuing other martial arts opened me up to a whole bigger MA world. Not being biased but I can honestly say that I improved more in two months of training with another style than I did in almost two years with FSD.

Now that's my rant and everyone knows where I stand. FSD has some serious fundamental flaws with its organization. Most of their students aren't happy but are afraid to say anything. However, having said that, it is my belief that the downtown school is by far the worst for some reason. This however doesn't say much about their system being that the Downtown school is JP's himself.

:deadhorse I don't like to beat a dead horse when it's down, but I believe FSD had this coming a long time ago. They've made some very upset consumers and owners over the years who were basically scared into not saying anything.

[Stringfellow]

Follow the Yellow Brick Road...

The interesting things is, JP doesn't really do much anymore. The person who is really calling the shots now is Martin Patenaude. From what I've been hearing recently, he already pretty much runs things in the organziation. The sifus talk to Martin, not Jacques. In loight of this information, some observations I've made now make sense.

In the years that I was attending, I saw a steady decline of JP's participation in the BBC classes. At first he would pontificate for up to an hour, and then eventually all he did was show up. He was just there - that's it. I've even seen JP defer to Martin on occasion (e.g. JP would tell the group now we'll do "X", Martin would step in for a hurried whisper and then JP would announce that they're doing "Y").

Truth be told, Martin is probably more dangerous than his father, having a similar business acumen but (I'm guessing) not so gullible and wacky. He's also been smart enough to stay out of things here on Bullshido (or at least, participate in such a way in that no attention has been drawn to him). Once he can safely shove his father aside, I would imagine Martin dropping all of the "kooky" stuff and tightening his grip on the schools. Right now I imagine that he's quietly maneuvering his father in the background, getting everything in place for the day that he takes over the empire. It's like the Wizard of Oz, with JP playing the Wizard and Martin shouting, "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" at anyone who looks his way.

[PeterPantsless]

Do you think FSD would be better with Martin at the helm? You mentioned that you think he would drop the kooky stuff. I've seen Martin get very frustrated at some of the assistant instructors, for lack of knowledge or technique. He seems to want to run a tight ship. But I find it absolutely bizzare, how he would seem to be solely focused on hard work, and technique; and the try and sell you some bullshit seminar, or BBC a second later, with complete conviction.

The way you desribed him, made me think of Darth Vader, biding his time, until he overthrows the Emperor..... Possibly with a Phon Sau 15.

[TKD Black Belt]

I think 'kooky' seems to be a word generally applicable to anyone associated with that group on an on going basis. Remember when you were a kid and you dropped your hotdog on the sand, no amount of wiping got it clean except a wash of water that basically left you with a cold hotdog. (hmmm, maybe I should give up my current job and start writing analogies for pro-wrestlers?)

Anyways, you remember the end of Wizard of Oz when the wizard told Dorothy she had the power to leave all the time? All she had to do was click her heels together? Man, if I was Dorothy I'd have decked the wizard, or maybe used Phon Sau 15!

TKD

"Please ignore the coordinately dressed man in silk on silk behind the taffeta curtains"

[Stringfellow]

Do you think FSD would be better with Martin at the helm? You mentioned that you think he would drop the kooky stuff. I've seen Martin get very frustrated at some of the assistant instructors, for lack of knowledge or technique. He seems to want to run a tight ship. But I find it absolutely bizzare, how he would seem to be solely focused on hard work, and technique; and the try and sell you some bullshit seminar, or BBC a second later, with complete conviction.

The way you desribed him, made me think of Darth Vader, biding his time, until he overthrows the Emperor..... Possibly with a Phon Sau 15.

I think that it would be the same money-focused organization that it is today, but Martin would do a better job at avoiding the "obviously kooky" stuff, and thus be better able to handle casual scutiny. That's why I think he's more dangerous.

You are correct in that Martin is the most "technical" of the rest and seems to take the martial arts aspect more seriously. The fundamental problem (and the source of his frustration) is that despite everything that they've set up in Fang Shen Do, they still don't have an effective way to teach. Everyone just memorizes the patterns and passes them on. They can recite and regurgitate, but they don't understand. Martin is probably one of the only people that I've been able to ask a question of and get a really detailed answer. Any other instructor has always had to do a little tap-dancing or fed me some pap that didn't help.

So far their efforts have been so focused on the business end of things that the art has seriously suffered, to the point where it's really the laughing stock of the MA world (even outside the context of Bullshido - anyone, anyone in the MA community that I've spoken to about FSD has laughed). Only a very core group of people (I'm talking about three or four people) really have a good understanding of the martial arts side, in my opinion. But they're spread so thin that there's no way even the school owners can get proper training. But they run a school anyway, and everything gets diluted. The owners can't get enough face time with this core group to improve (in fact, from what I've heard, once you open a school your training effectively stops - when you think that students at the blue and green sash levels are being pushed to open schools that gives you an idea of the calibre of instruction) and they teach their students the best they can with their limited understanding. I've always found it curious how they on one hand tell you how long it takes to truly begin to understand Fang Shen Do (they often comment on how blasck sash is the beginning of your training), and yet on the other hand are so willing to let just about anybody open up a school. Personally, I think that the reason it takes so long to understand Fang Shen Do is that they don't understand how to teach. Somehow they think that if you just keep doing something over and over again the understanding will magically come. In my experience, I've found that repetition only helps me once I understand what I'm trying to achieve. Otherwise I might as well be dancing.

Oh, and your Darth Vader analogy strikes me as being pretty accurate (only I don't see any Luke Skywalker around to help with his redemption).

[GreenHornet]

we are the Lukes...
runs away to take a shower to get rid of the nerdiness(is that even a word?)

[BoardHitBack]

The day I quit and started pursuing other martial arts opened me up to a whole bigger MA world. Not being biased but I can honestly say that I improved more in two months of training with another style than I did in almost two years with FSD.

This keeps coming up. I think if I kept seeing people make these statements and trained FSD, I'd be doing some maths. Cost-Benefit, Cost-Benefit, Cost-Benefit......

I'd at least check out other schools in the area. If you were convinced by "testimonials" to join the club, maybe you should be convinced by testimonials to look at other styles. Its not like you know the people who either. Or of course you keep drinking the koolaid and kneeling before SIJO
:bowdown:

[Cdnronin]

Where are these posts going? One of you stated alot of bla bla and I have to agree that alot of you are doing just that and it's getting pretty boring to read. TKD you sound like a nice little guy who doesn't know what a fight is really but that's ok cause you will never get it no matter what training you do. Cheers but it's getting boring on here!

So how about you tell some stories as a former FSD instructor? "Hi, I'm Dictionary69, and I'm a FSD instructor." "Hi, Dictionary69!" See, just think of this as a support group.

[Crazy Mount]

This keeps coming up. I think if I kept seeing people make these statements and trained FSD, I'd be doing some maths. Cost-Benefit, Cost-Benefit, Cost-Benefit......

I'd at least check out other schools in the area. If you were convinced by "testimonials" to join the club, maybe you should be convinced by testimonials to look at other styles. Its not like you know the people who either. Or of course you keep drinking the koolaid and kneeling before SIJO
:bowdown:

You'd think that many FSD students would be doing that, but from my understanding there are many that haven't found this site yet. The FSD organization is very good at keeping secrets as we all know, and this is a big one that they would like to keep quiet. I just feel bad for many of the students because they're paying enormous sums of money and not really getting much out of it. Or at least they're not getting anything that they couldn't get elsewhere. It's really sad, I was a heavy kool-aid drinker for a long time and a good student, not just cause I did every seminar and learned quickly, but also because I was a decent fighter. They liked me because I trained hard, had tolerance for pain, and of course took all the seminars! But man did I progress the day I quit FSD. I thought I was good but that was only because I stayed within the FSD box they created. The day I left I was rudely awakened.

You know JP always talked about Tony Robbins and his book "Awaken the Giant Within", but I believe for his students to truly awaken this giant, they need to part ways with FSD or at least cross-train.

[BoardHitBack]

That's fair. If is a big word tho bro!

You can't help but feel sorry for those being blinded by the FSD org. They are almost like the people in Plato's cave, seeing only the shadows of reality flickering against a dark background. The difference is no one chained up the people in Plato's cave, whereas the FSD hierarchy is responsible for the training of its students. The dark deceivers fucking up the potential of their students and extracting alot of cash in return. Anger towards them will always outweigh the pity I have for their students, and not because the latter is in short supply.

If you know any one still in the cult or with contacts with, if not you aren't already drop this site name in conversation!

[TKD Black Belt]

I trained with a group of guys who would only compete in tournaments held by the exact association they belonged to. At one point I asked them why they didn't compete with other fighters in either MMA or open tournaments (some of these guys weren't terribly bad either) and the answer always boiled down to some BS that was around being too dangerous to fight other styles.

Fear is a powerful thing. I can think back to my first day as a bouncer and realizing that the guy twice my size was now 'MY PROBLEM'. I was very happy to have trained with a few wrestlers at that point in time.

I guess my point is that most of these people probably have at the very least a rough idea of how bad it would go in the real world for them. Sadly there are also those who are without a clue (enhanced, I'm looking at you!) who believe in the falsified statements provided to them by their instructors.

TKD

PS - Due to the fact that this program does provide the Guarentee of Self Defense ability, you might be in a position to sue should you find the system ineffective against someone in a 'real world' situation :ninja2:

"Back off! Get your own sandwich!"