Fang Shen Do

[Askari]

Let us draw out some choice lines:

The contender, Marc Cambain, who was previously undefeated 6-0 as an amateur and 2-0 as a pro fighter - had never been hit or taken off his feet in his professional career.

At fight time, the completely Anglo Hill was lowered on a platform, ensconsed in smoke and scantilly-clad women.
The driving sounds of Eminem's Lose Yourself pounded in the background, along with boos and derogatory chants. Paper beer cups and food wrappers pelted the stoic Hill, who remained focused on the task at hand. He was led through the hostile crowd and into the 24-foot wide locked octagon cage which was eltevated five feet off the ground.

I wonder if Frank Dux was there to hand him a sword at the end?

[Askari]

I so have to follow that up with a repost of this pic:

[Askari]

The Infamous Article

So last weekend a friend of mine walks into a bar, only its not a bar its the "Manotick Messenger." And guess what?

I imagine this is the article that used to be up on the wall as the proof for Scott Hill. You be the judge if it is proof or not. This is the entire article with no edits, you can download and expand my attachment for verification.

Manotick Messenger, Wednesday, May 7, 2003, Page 17
Send your sports stories and brief sports items to: Phone: 692-6000 Fax: 692-3758

Hill peaks in World Extreme battle
Richmond martial artist defeats no.1 contender despite last-minute extreme fighting invitation

By Johnathan Monk

Scott Hill is not a violent guy. Despite his size, physically challenging hobby and previous choice of employment, the owner and certified instructor of Richmond Kung Fu school would much rather reason his way out of a fight than have it come to blows.

However, the mild-mannered Hill, who once made a living disposing of unruly nightclub patrons, has now whet his appetite for hand-to-hand battle with his recent success at the World Extreme Combat Federation challenge March 29 in Laval, Que.

Now he's thirsty for more.

[FSD LOGO]

Opportunity or mistake?

With the WECF champion having just taken ill, Hill and his mentor, Pat Marciel of Gatineau, Que., were asked if they'd be interested in filling the two vacant spots left by the defending champion and another fighter. Following a 20-minute deliberation which included a quick phone call seeking the blessing of his wife, Mary, who said, "I'm not worried. Just make sure you win," Hill accepted the challenge with only two weeks to prepare.


The 14-year veteran of Fang Shen Do (the way of survival) had never battled in competition before.
His school, and the 16 other Patenaude Kung Fu schools across Quebec and Ontario, do not believe in point tournaments normally.

Although Hill would later discover he was unsuccessful in his attempt to keep his involvement a secret, he felt the need to prove to both himself and his students they'd made the right choice in Fang Shen Do.

"I wanted to prove that we were the real deal," says the former South Carleton high school football player and coach.

Sitting in the back of his mind, however, was the very likely chance that along with losing the match he might lose his credibility with his students, thus endangering his livelihood. After all, the fighters in these competitions train solely for this type of battle, complete with built-in octagons in their schools. Hill's school deals simply in self-defense.


The father of two girls - Jenna, 8, and Chayse, 7, - teaches Kung Fu on the side. During the day he's a Project Manager with Apollo Management Services in Ottawa. His daughters have been training at the Fang Shen Do club since they were five.


David vs Goliath

At a hulking 255-pounds of muscle on his 5'11" frame, Hill is an imposing figure, but at 6'6", 245 pounds and 26-years-old - eight years younger than Hill - the former Manotick resident would seem to be fighting an uphill battle.

The contender, Marc Cambain, who was previously undefeated 6-0 as an amateur and 2-0 as a pro fighter - had never been hit or taken off his feet in his professional career. However, with his technique based in jiu-jitsu and karate, Hill concluded the best way to get the better of this mountain was to bring him down to the same level "where his height and reach don't make a difference," he says.

Hill and Marciel trained together for 15 days straight, concentrating on intense, full-contact sparring. To better prepare himself for the vast difference in height and reach, Hill called on a few tall friends, who he says may not be any longer after the punishment they had to endure.

[PHOTO]
A battle-scarred Scott Hill following his first-round defeat of previously unbeaten Marc Cambain (top). A slightly more reserved businessman (below). Johnathan Monk photo
[PHOTO]


Unfriendly territory

Finally the day had come. Hill admits he was a little on edge for the final week leading up to the fight.

At the weigh-in, Hill was surprised to see his opponent was a few inches taller than the 6'3" claim organizers had made to him earlier.

At fight time, the completely Anglo Hill was lowered on a platform, ensconsed in smoke and scantilly-clad women. The driving sounds of Eminem's Lose Yourself pounded in the background, along with boos and derogatory chants. Paper beer cups and food wrappers pelted the stoic Hill, who remained focused on the task at hand. He was led through the hostile crowd and into the 24-foot wide locked octagon cage which was eltevated five feet off the ground. To help the crowd in their loathing, Hill was introduced as "the person that hates all french people," bellowed the announcer en francais. "Here to show no Quebecers can fight."

The hometown boy entered to cheers and fanfare, his body covered in temporary tatoos advertising local businesses.

The crowd laughed and pointed at both Hill and Marciel. Marciel fought handily before Hill, winning his fight with a standing TKO at 2:17 in the first round. At 165 pounds, the 26-year-old Marciel was supposed to battle in the 160-pound-or-less category, but instead faced an undefeated 180-pound opponent.

Hill and Cambain rushed forward following the bell. Within the first ten seconds, Hill felt the big man's hand dig into his face. The punch settled Hill down. He swept the fleshy trunks of his opponent, landing him on his back. After putting him into a full-mount position, the referee stood the two fighters up - a faux paux in such competition if the man on top is shelling out quality blows.

The pair were on their feet again, but not for long. Hill slipped under Cambain's slow power hand, lifting his leg and dumping him to the mat. Hill put a front choke-hold on the man below him and was once again ordered to his feet. What he didn't realize was that Cambain had tapped out, leaving the visitor with a win by submission at 2:33 of the first round.

As the underdog left the cage, the crowd was livid. Trainers and security guards led Hill through the angry crowd as they attempted to show the unwelcome Hill their disapproval.

Despite the less than gracious treatment they received, both Hill and Marciel would like to fight again.

Says Hill, "This is one of the few days I'll remember forever."

[TKD Black Belt]

Well, a departure meeting is where I showed up in plain clothes (just before class) and told him I wanted to quit, to see his reaction and what would happen.

The reaction to reading Bullshido, was that there was a lack of surprise that people have been reading it and some may have been leaving FSD because of it.

Hmmm, I smell something.......

TKD

Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, but man ducks can't fight!

[TheDingo]

I agree that Scott is a nice guy on the surface. But remember, he was part of the goon squad that sJP sent out to threaten Brian Dean and his members. Oh, and Sifunobs (SP) is also a nice guy.... Until you disagree with him. He too is part of the goon squad.

May be true, but I don't know that. I'll treat it as heresay, for the time being. Hill's actions towards me were respectful in person, outside of that I can't comment.

[TheDingo]

You had a departure meeting? What the hell is that?

And TheDingo, what was there reaction to you reading Bullshido?

Well, a departure meeting is where I showed up in plain clothes (just before class) and told him I wanted to quit, to see his reaction and what would happen.

The reaction to reading Bullshido, was that there was a lack of surprise that people have been reading it and some may have been leaving FSD because of it.

[GreenHornet]

Heh I guess philosophical and logic studies are paying off. Viva La rational thinking!

[Askari]

During my departure meeting

You had a departure meeting? What the hell is that?

I mentioned that Sifu No BS's comments was a small part in my leaving

And TheDingo, what was there reaction to you reading Bullshido?

I don't care if sifu x is the best martial artist in the world, if he can not make ME a good martial artist, then I have no time to waste with him. there is a difference between a good fighter and a good teacher. The first can be considered necessary to the second, but not sufficient.

Amen to that! GreenHornet, you do good work!

[GreenHornet]

remember it is the sifu that claimed that the article were talking about their victory, we still havn't seen those. the students who came here and claimed that the fight were real based themselves on a poster, but I don't recall any of them saying they had read any article.
the burden of proof is still in the FSD camp.

about Scott H. or any Sifu that are supposed to be nice person: this does not make them great teachers. Of course if I train with a Muay Thai instructor and that the guy is a dick, no matter how good he is, it will not help me to learn. However, if you train with the most kind guy on earth, but that this guy is teaching you crap, what's the point? you are still learning crap.
I think something is often forgotten in this thread and in MA in general: necessary and sufficient. It is necessary that your instructor has good knowledge of MA, but it is not sufficient. It is sufficient that the STUDENTS are good to make a good MA school.
I don't care if sifu x is the best martial artist in the world, if he can not make ME a good martial artist, then I have no time to waste with him. there is a difference between a good fighter and a good teacher. The first can be considered necessary to the second, but not sufficient.
The most funny thing when this type of argument is brought is that FSD ppl will say:"well I remember you, you were not motivated enough, you did not train properly..." But when you were training with them you had every chance to become the next black belt. No joke when I was Blue belt my sifu approched me saying: " you know I estimate that you will be a Black belt in X months." Following by: " you should really think joining BBC to make your training more advanced."

memories :)

[BoardHitBack]

I've seen the newsclippings up on the wall of his school and they didn't look fake to me. :) I can't qualify on how good the fight was since I never saw it, or at what level the competition was. But he did win (unless the newspaper was lying...).

Originally both FSD students won their fights, and the newspaper clippings was said to confirm both victories.

Sifu No BS's posts here on Bullshido made me twitch. Jeez, get a grip. During my departure meeting, I mentioned that Sifu No BS's comments was a small part in my leaving (small, because I had already made up my mind, but man, did it reinforce my decision). If he only posted like a mature adult, I may have stuck around for a brief time longer (though I still think leaving was a good idea).

How they react to that? And who was Sifu No BS? I don't remember seeing one..but hey we had a lot of people chip in over the last 115 or so pages so that isn't too surprising.

Thanx for posting. Congrats on the bundle of joy, and I hope you can get to train somewhere quality, at least once your sleep pattern returns to normal.

[madmax]

They are not what they appear to be

I've seen the newsclippings up on the wall of his school and they didn't look fake to me. :) I can't qualify on how good the fight was since I never saw it, or at what level the competition was. But he did win (unless the newspaper was lying...).

So that's not saying much, other than there was a fight and he did win. :) I have no doubt of that.

Calling people liars without substantiation is a dangerous thing -- but so is believing everything you see, hear and read (call me a critical thinker sometimes prone to over-enthusiam).

I quit FSD a week and a half ago -- personal reasons which I won't go into here (atleast not entirely).

Trained in Sifu Hill's school and must say he is a decent fellow. I departed under friendly terms even before my contract was up for renewal, so I have nothing bad to say about that. I have nothing personally negative to say about the guy (he was never a jerk, a liar or a braggart to me, never used excessive force, or made me smell anything).

I have a few comments about how the school is run, and a lot of criticism about the style itself, the teaching, and the techniques.

Of course, I wasn't the optimal student (for a while my attendence became erratic due to back problems and a new-bundle-of-joy who likes to scream at varying times throughout the night).

My criticisms about how the school is run, can be seen as the eye-of-the-beholder. The things I didn't like, but be what some people are looking for. I like my training more organized, especially for the cost.

As for FSD as an entity onto itself, I would recommend staying away and finding something else.

Unless a lot of the BS gets cleaned up at the upper echelons I doubt I would go back. Reading sJP's statement on the cover of the 2006 FSD calendar made me really wary (about having mastered many forms of martial arts, but never telling us which ones they were.... I'll do dig it up so I can throw some quotes around). Heck even the web site has a "spam" look and feel. *shudder*

It's all like some late night info-mercial. Like the fake-hair-in-a-can which tries to be the real thing. This is my perception of how FSD presents itself.

Sifu No BS's posts here on Bullshido made me twitch. Jeez, get a grip. During my departure meeting, I mentioned that Sifu No BS's comments was a small part in my leaving (small, because I had already made up my mind, but man, did it reinforce my decision). If he only posted like a mature adult, I may have stuck around for a brief time longer (though I still think leaving was a good idea).

I agree that Scott is a nice guy on the surface. But remember, he was part of the goon squad that sJP sent out to threaten Brian Dean and his members. Oh, and Sifunobs (SP) is also a nice guy.... Until you disagree with him. He too is part of the goon squad.

[TheDingo]

I've seen the newsclippings up on the wall of his school and they didn't look fake to me. :) I can't qualify on how good the fight was since I never saw it, or at what level the competition was. But he did win (unless the newspaper was lying...).

So that's not saying much, other than there was a fight and he did win. :) I have no doubt of that.

Calling people liars without substantiation is a dangerous thing -- but so is believing everything you see, hear and read (call me a critical thinker sometimes prone to over-enthusiam).

I quit FSD a week and a half ago -- personal reasons which I won't go into here (atleast not entirely).

Trained in Sifu Hill's school and must say he is a decent fellow. I departed under friendly terms even before my contract was up for renewal, so I have nothing bad to say about that. I have nothing personally negative to say about the guy (he was never a jerk, a liar or a braggart to me, never used excessive force, or made me smell anything).

I have a few comments about how the school is run, and a lot of criticism about the style itself, the teaching, and the techniques.

Of course, I wasn't the optimal student (for a while my attendence became erratic due to back problems and a new-bundle-of-joy who likes to scream at varying times throughout the night).

My criticisms about how the school is run, can be seen as the eye-of-the-beholder. The things I didn't like, but be what some people are looking for. I like my training more organized, especially for the cost.

As for FSD as an entity onto itself, I would recommend staying away and finding something else.

Unless a lot of the BS gets cleaned up at the upper echelons I doubt I would go back. Reading sJP's statement on the cover of the 2006 FSD calendar made me really wary (about having mastered many forms of martial arts, but never telling us which ones they were.... I'll do dig it up so I can throw some quotes around). Heck even the web site has a "spam" look and feel. *shudder*

It's all like some late night info-mercial. Like the fake-hair-in-a-can which tries to be the real thing. This is my perception of how FSD presents itself.

Sifu No BS's posts here on Bullshido made me twitch. Jeez, get a grip. During my departure meeting, I mentioned that Sifu No BS's comments was a small part in my leaving (small, because I had already made up my mind, but man, did it reinforce my decision). If he only posted like a mature adult, I may have stuck around for a brief time longer (though I still think leaving was a good idea).

[GreenHornet]

it is fake: they don't talk about the rules in the article, its just a description of the night, but as you can see it is very amateurish.

Askari: this is one of the worst guard Ive seen in my short experience of grappling.

[Askari]

You mean picks like this?

[It is Fake]

Please translate the article. If this is what they were talking about I want to see the rules.