Fang Shen Do

[JohnnyCache]

Alarm Bell #1
I was disturbed that the results and especially the first few hits made it instantly clear that FSD was a 'made-up' form of MA offered at these local studios only. There wasn't a variety of hits and information from around the world as you would get if you searched for something like 'Wing Chun' for example.

YOu know this particular red flag has always been under our radar here.

[Askari]

Research

The dedicated research staff of the "Fang Shen Do: Sordid History Project" have worked to find some new information. I thought it would be best in another thread over in the history forum so as to be easily found without going through several pages of threads.

So without further ado, I give you: Fang Shen Do: Sordid History

[NoPhule]

Man it is amazing what the Internet can do these days. That was an excellent article Stringfellow. I found this post when a friend pointed it out after seeing the free 30 days of martial arts instruction. I have to confess that I have never taken a class from the Patenaude schools, so I can only speak as an outsider.

Back around 89-90 a friend of mine had joined a school and said that the school was giving a free public demonstration day. I went for the demonstration, because I was always interested in martial arts. As a newbie to the information on the arts, I was somewhat impressed with the demo. However, I was not impressed with Mr Patenaudes attitude. He severly berated one spectator and I thought he was going to attack the guy.

A couple of months later my friend left the school for the reasons already outlined above. He switched to Wing Chun, which I also joined. Now that I am more educated about martial arts in general and jiu-jitsu in particular, I would probably make a different choice. However the Wing Chun school provided a good atmosphere for learning.

One other thing that I remember from the seminar is that Patenaude claimed that Wing Chun Do stood for "The modern art of Wing Chun".

Unfortunately I do not have the time at this point in my life to devote to any training, or I would join one of the schools that Askari or Stringfellow has joined. You guys seem to be very sensible and calm about things. Kudos to you guys. Hopefully I can get my sons interested and then we can take classes together.

Once again thanks for the article and this forum thread.

[EDIT] Just noticed that "Fang Shen Do Training Guide: Volume # 1" by Sijo Jacques Patenaude is published by Trafford Publishing. Trafford is one of those companies that gets the author to pay for the privlege of publishing their book. Real publishers do not charge the author a cent to be published.

[Askari]

Hi NoPhule,

Thank you for the support, there are a number of irons in the fire - more to come.

[PeterPantsless]

[Doctor X]

Wow.

I actually sat down and enjoyed reading a 37 page thread. I can only add my appreciation and congratulations to Stringfellow and others who have made these revelations known.

Funny thing about martial arts cults: would anyone accept such behavior from a golf instructor?

Furthermore, I agree that the SUPREME indicator of cult is a figure that demands to be addressed in public with some ridiculous title that even the Japanese and Chinese are too embarrassed to call themselves.

--J.D.

[GreenHornet]

I bought the striking dvd and its pretty pathetic... 20 mins of striking demonstration on pads... and the rest is only advertisement for seminars... Even back then when I was drinking the kool-aid I was really disappointed. I bet you that the other dvds are all the same.
GOD I CANT BELIEVE I PAID 60$ CND FOR THAT CRAP!!!

[It is Fake]

I bought the striking dvd and its pretty pathetic... 20 mins of striking demonstration on pads... and the rest is only advertisement for seminars... Even back then when I was drinking the kool-aid I was really disappointed. I bet you that the other dvds are all the same.
GOD I CANT BELIEVE I PAID 60$ CND FOR THAT CRAP!!!

Yeah, I did another art and paid ridiculous amounts of money when I look back. It happens when the kool-aide is good.

Funny what happens when you realize it is full of salt.

[TKD Black Belt]

Hey DocX I don't mind being quoted but could you at least give me a small amount of credit ;)

I find it so funny when people seem to think that MA is either:
a.) Trapped in time (it was perfected 100 years ago, so we won't change it)
b.) Outside of the rules that govern other sports, ie. A shitty golf instructor is just that a shitty golf instructor (albeit I usually use hockey as an example).

TKD

PS - Never take piano lessons from a guy who doesn't play the piano. Although according to the rumours running wild apparently you can learn 'Assault' and 'Running' in FSD!

[Askari]

Corel Clip Art contains some pics of these guys:








Ok, so I'll have to work on this a bit.

[Askari]

Pics of Disaster.
Found at the links in the previous post.

From a straight Wing Chun perspective, let alone a fighting perspective these are "interesting" I particularily like chambering the fist down to the stomach. And I also like the attacker who is standing straight up and down with his hand at his side.

[Doctor X]

Hey DocX I don't mind being quoted but could you at least give me a small amount of credit ;)

Sorry, I did not see--after 37 pages it is hard to remember what is what.

I find it so funny when people seem to think that MA is either:
a.) Trapped in time (it was perfected 100 years ago, so we won't change it)
b.) Outside of the rules that govern other sports, ie. A shitty golf instructor is just that a shitty golf instructor (albeit I usually use hockey as an example).

I see this same idiotic claim in the styles I know. I use golf because most Senior-seniors--including the Okinawans--like to "waste a good walk" so to write. They also do not buy into the stupidity of the "hierachy." Anyways, there are well-meaning students and teachers who think the kata Imperious Grand Poohbah brought back from China are "thousands of years old!" It is this religious mentality that believes "old is better" and there was always this "perfect form" back in the day that us poor bastards do not know.

In reality Imperious Grand Poohbah played with moves, adapted applications--"This work good. This work good . . . not so good."--and spent a lot of time doing kumite.

To extend the analogy, Bullshidoists expect you to play gold in the teacher's back yard exclusively. You are forbidden to go to a golf course.

PS - Never take piano lessons from a guy who doesn't play the piano. Although according to the rumours running wild apparently you can learn 'Assault' and 'Running' in FSD!

You can learn from an honest teacher--one who knows his limitations.

--J.D.

[jamboo]

I love this site. Bullshido really does expose the BS in martial arts.

The only experience I've had with Fang Shen Do was meeting Sifu Scott Hill and another Sifu at the Labatt 24-Hour Relay in Nepean in 2004. They came to give a little bit of a demo on Fang Shen Do. They showed some wrist locks and a few strikes I think.

They both seemed like really nice guys. I told them I don't have much money cause I'm going to university, and that I had all ready paid a fair bit of money to Therien Jiu-Jitsu. The sifu who was with Scott Hill immediately said "Doesn't it bother you that they sell donuts in their dojos?" I told him I had never seen donuts being sold at the Therien schools I went to, but that I thought Therien was garbage, I didn't learn a thing (Therien claims that it is good for self-defence), and some classes I didn't even break a sweat (Therien boasts that their class is great for fitness). He said that the schools are more geared towards kids and getting money from families, rather than training martial arts to people. It legitimized them, in my eyes, that they too could recognize bullshido.

So from my experience, both sifus seemed like really nice guys who were no nonsense about martial arts training, which I thought was awesome.

Scott Hill told me to try the free month of training they offer. I thought about it, being that their Kanata location is about a 2 minute drive from me! But I looked it up online and saw people talking somewhere about how it is a cult, and costs $150/month or more with lots of different fees. And starting training in a new art a month before I go away again for school would be silly.

But if all these stories about dojo raids, pyramid schemes, and messed up weekend retreats are true, then......wow. It sounds like Fang Shen Do really is a cult, and that Patenaude guy has people brainwashed. I just hope he doesn't do anything besides take people's money...

[Doctor X]

For what it is worth, cults and members in particular, have to denigrate other styles and cults. Unless you are dealing with a fraud who knows he is a fraud, students and teachers are in continuum of denial, and part of the way to maintain adherence is to attack anything that competes with "the Truth."

--J.D.

[TKD Black Belt]

"I told him I had never seen donuts being sold at the Therien schools I went to, but that I thought Therien was garbage, I didn't learn a thing (Therien claims that it is good for self-defence), and some classes I didn't even break a sweat (Therien boasts that their class is great for fitness)."

As someone who's been on the opposite side of the ring from more than one Jean Yves student I can tell you first hand that Therien's is a great school. John and Jean-Yves have produced some of the best people I've ever fought and scene fight. Along with that a number of Therien students are currently members of top ranked BJJ teams in Canada.

How long where you there?

TKD