Fang Shen Do

[Crazy Mount]

It is my sincere hope that those that so far have been quiet out of fear will stand up and tell their stories, and that with each additional one it will encourage the next person to tell theirs. No one needs to fear these people.

Amen to that Stringfellow. You are absolutely right, knowone needs to fear these people. I too once feared these individuals and have since realized that they are all talk; full of idle threats and bullying. Anyone out there that is afraid to reveal their stories musn't hold back. You'll find that your story is one of so so many and that the Patenudes best defense to these stories is to instill more fear in hopes that you'll keep quiet.

Should a student fear a retaliation from his teacher? Should a student be afraid to talk about his experiences of a school out in the open? Absolutely not! Any grief the Patenudes get from us telling our stories, they brought upon themselves. People like many of those telling their stories on this thread are not people who look for trouble, but individuals who became fed up with the way they were treated. The treatment they recieved was given to them by the Patenudes, a family who they once worshiped and respected. Every threat they send or challange they put forth only strengthens are statements that they are an aggressive, bullying cult. The best offense they could assemble would be to hold an intellectual conversation where they listen to our questions and answer them honestly. Together problems could be solved and past failures could be mended. The Patenudes have too much pride and would simply not do this. They think that they don't need to listen to anyone because they have all the answers. They think there better than everyone, and will say that we're just a few disgruntled students, when actually there are many. The Patenudes will do damage control which will result in them instilling more fear in their students so that students will think twice about talking. This is why you have guys who used to have FSD schools not speaking up.


The best thing we can do is tell our stories and make the Patenudes face them, and eventually own up to them if they are to continue. They must do this if they are to advance because any new student can simply go in and ask them about comments from this thread. A simple "oh, it's just a few angry students" won't cut it. A new student will read right through it. Sigoo flying out of his office and yelling at a future student for asking such stupid questions will only make the newcommer run for the door, if he/she hasn't already. This is the beauty of us telling our stories. We need to reveal the truth of their actions and pull back the curtain.

[Slug]

Wing Fang Chun Do

I have; and truthfully toe to toe the main sifus aren't bad. They're fast and pack a powerful punch. The shit they teach in class is useless even to them because I've never had any of them use a phon sao or any sort of trapping hands on me. They basically practise hard combinations over and over that are relatively effective. They boast being able to flow - meaning if one thing doesn't work then use another. Makes sense right? Not totally, because the minute you go to the ground their flow resorts to bites, eye and nut strikes simply because they don't know how to grapple.

I would imagine that most of the FSD standup game or all of it is based on Wing Chun Do's approach, which is close distance and slug/blast away.

I would imagine that you get decent at anything if your repetitive enough in your training which is fine. BUT wtf do you do when your game plan changes? ground fighting is a real possibility and to think that eye 'boinks' and biting will neutralize a good ground fighter you are indeed fucking nuts. A good ground guy will dish it out right back at you. The FSD mentality seems to harken back to the pre UFC days where Kung Fu was mysterious and 'deadly' becuase there was nothing to gauge it to.

[Doctor X]

Stringfellow:

Oh do not get me wrong; I level no criticism towards you or anyone else posting evidence and issues involved in FSD. As I tried to suggest, it is a useful paradigm for understanding delusions in martial arts as well as other things.

My criticism is towards the individual who, despite all of this, insists on joining FSD. Now, that is his right, of course. Then he should go, train, and let people know the positive and negatives. Instead, he asks leading questions then reacts badlyto the answers. I really do not care if he is legitimate or not; he is a waste of attention. A serious man would simply train and come back and write about how everyone is either correct or wrong about FSD.

A wiseman would heed the warning of those who experienced before.

For intelligent men learn from mistakes, whereas wisemen learn from the mistakes of others.

--J.D.

[Stringfellow]

about the fang shen dont blog Id like to say that you are doing a great job there stringfellow, and I suggest that any one who is reading this thread go and read it.
http://fangshendont.blogspot.com/

Thanks, GH. I created it mostly as an adjunct to this thread - a place where I can put things that either don't really belong or are useful enough to have their own place. That said, I do encourage link and comments (yes, I am a whore).

[Stringfellow]

Oye.

This thread is a great paradigm for martial arts delusions and exploitation in general.

As for the one wishing to practice FSD, this reminds me of a thread on ANOTHER BOARD [Boo. Hiss.--Ed.] where two sad pathetics spout that they have evidence of sea serpents in SF Bay.

Evidence you ask? What? Like a carcass or film? They have very poor quality video which you can buy--sorry, "obtain" with a fee for shipping, handling and beer of $10--that comes with an "Analysis" performed by creationists. See . . . creationists love challenges to "evilution."

Okay, so how is that relevant?

The thread THERE runs about as long as this one. The issues were handled in one or two pages--do you have real evidence? No? Okay, come back when you do.

So the clowns regurgitate the argument to just argue and feel important. Over and over again.

Thus the situation here: the issue is simple: if you do not wish to heed the warnings of poster who were members of FSD, if you do not wish to heed further evidence, then go and train and come back in six months and let us know.

Yet we have continued argument. We have demands to "know more." We have insults when those familiar with FSD shoot-down the claims. Other than the continued revelations concerning FSD which serve as an object lesson to all, the "back story" is worthless.

Or as a wise man put it. . . .

--J.D.

Well, this thread has been different things at different times. It started with a simple query, became a 2-bit expose with my article, then became a real expose as a good number of other former students backed it up, then turned into a verbal brawl as the FSD faithful rushed to its defence, and from there has at various times been a comedy, a rant, and a flame-war. I would argue that throughout all of this, however, it has always been informative and a benefit.

We're always unearthing new information that sheds new and additional light on the Patenaudes and how they conduct their business. Quite honestly, even when I wrote my article I had no idea of the breadth of their activities and I'm thankful to those that have stepped up with their stories. I think one thing that a lot of people don't realize is that it's not just saying "this school sucks". These people have quite a grip on the majority of their students. I've privately been given information by a number of people who have asked me not to share it because they're worried about the Patenaude's tracking them down. That's not reasonable. And while it may seem that we've "tapped out" this vein, I can tell you that there is still much of the story to be told.

I think the biggest value of this thread now is that it's showing these people that the Patenaude's aren't the gods that they thought they were. They're not some elite super-deadly group of martial artists - in fact they're not even very good martial artists. They're just a bunch of people who act tough and are aiming to sell as much snake-oil as they can sell before the jig is up. It is my sincere hope that those that so far have been quiet out of fear will stand up and tell their stories, and that with each additional one it will encourage the next person to tell theirs. No one needs to fear these people.

[Doctor X]

Oye.

This thread is a great paradigm for martial arts delusions and exploitation in general.

As for the one wishing to practice FSD, this reminds me of a thread on ANOTHER BOARD [Boo. Hiss.--Ed.] where two sad pathetics spout that they have evidence of sea serpents in SF Bay.

Evidence you ask? What? Like a carcass or film? They have very poor quality video which you can buy--sorry, "obtain" with a fee for shipping, handling and beer of $10--that comes with an "Analysis" performed by creationists. See . . . creationists love challenges to "evilution."

Okay, so how is that relevant?

The thread THERE runs about as long as this one. The issues were handled in one or two pages--do you have real evidence? No? Okay, come back when you do.

So the clowns regurgitate the argument to just argue and feel important. Over and over again.

Thus the situation here: the issue is simple: if you do not wish to heed the warnings of poster who were members of FSD, if you do not wish to heed further evidence, then go and train and come back in six months and let us know.

Yet we have continued argument. We have demands to "know more." We have insults when those familiar with FSD shoot-down the claims. Other than the continued revelations concerning FSD which serve as an object lesson to all, the "back story" is worthless.

Or as a wise man put it. . . .

--J.D.

[GreenHornet]

what amaze me the most is that this has nothing to do with MA at all...
well Im not that amazed, but I just like to point it out :)

[Askari]

Chopping Wood, Chi Sao and Firewalks

I think this was linked to before but it still has parts that just amaze. Under the title "Chopping Wood, Chi Sao and Firewalks."

[GreenHornet]

about the fang shen dont blog Id like to say that you are doing a great job there stringfellow, and I suggest that any one who is reading this thread go and read it.
http://fangshendont.blogspot.com/

[Stringfellow]

I know some people have been waiting for it, so I thought that I'd announce the first part of the "exit strategies" is up on the Fang Shen Dont blog. This one's kind of boring - all just legal stuff. Part 2 will deal with the actual leaving part.

[PeterPantsless]

The eagle claw is definately effective, but does it need to be practiced? In grappling?

Anyone can do an eagle claw and anyone can bite. No need to practice.

[Crazy Mount]

Oh the mighty eagle claw! I used it once in a real fight actually and was successful with it, although the guy did panic. He really didn't know what to do so I ended up with full mount - one shot and it was over.

[Cdnronin]

I can add 3 t-shirts myself (2 regular, one BBC with the black trim on the arms...), I don't see anything wrong with giving to charity. :icon_geek

It's either that or they'll become the I'm working on something greasy/muddy shirts.

It's not like I'm going to wear them in public now that I am no longer a member. Heck I dislike even having a Nike logo on a t-shirt.

I will generously support any panhandler/squeegie kid I see in a FSD shirt, or anything with the logo. Just being civic minded.

[Crazy Mount]

Yeah but, you do drunken boxing sheesh!!!

Ahhhh yes, but I was sober when I took them down. Imagine what I'd do if I was the drunk construction worker going to the bathroom?

[PeterPantsless]

I haven't rolled with any of the original sifus, but I have rolled with some of the Sifu 2.0's. Crazy Mount speaks the truth. Thier ground game is awful. The first time I grappled one, I didn't go full out, for two reasons; I did not know what I was doing, grappling wise, and I didn't want to be disrespectful. We fought to an impasse and then, he told me he could "hold me there all day", if he wanted to. I thought I was holding him! So clearly, he knew as much about grappling as I did.

They are better at stand up. That being said, I would put any instructor I have had since FSD, against them, any day of the week.

Funny story. After training in grappling for a month or so while still training FSD, we did some rolling in class. I was paired with another guy who was a very good grappler. ( having learned it elsewhere of course.) He was schooling me, but I managed to pull guard. The Sifu comes over and starts yelling at him, "Use the eagle claw! There is an eagle claw there! Use it, Use it!! The guy in my guard is passing it pretty good, and clearly does not want to "eagle claw" me. The Sifu keeps yelling, but then turns to "help" another two that almost rolled over him. I look up at my partner, and say, "Don't fucking eagle claw me." He replies, "Like I was going to", and then proceeds to pass my guard and sub me with a keylock.

I should have used an eagle claw. HA!:eusa_danc