Fang Shen Do

[It is Fake]

I believe Fang Shen Do has dropped the ball on this one. In my opinion, they kept the "we are the best", mantra, isolating themselves from a changing martial arts community, and failed to evolve.
.

This problem isn't just in FSD. It is a huge problem in many TMA circles. IMO, and from what I've experience, it is a huge marketing ploy.


Everyone has A we offer A-thru-Z. If you have no understanding this looks great.

[n00b]

Well there is a point to be made too: if no new allegations, proofs, problems, whatever are coming to light for the time being, it's just conversation. I'm comfortable leaving it there unless and until I start seeing more yelling, actual tournament comps, evidence, etc. The 'bullshido checklist' in particular presents things very clearly. Hopefully some MA newbies will read this and think long and hard about signing up.

Thanks for everyone's participation!

[It is Fake]

Dang! I humbly apologise, and take back all those nasty things I said. Off to go study Hooked on Phonics.

Don't apologize for anything. If I used the quote function there wouldn't have been an issue.

[Psychedelic]

[QUOTE=Jaric]I think the newbs here are forgetting that this is Bullshido. Being an asshole is part and parcel of the site.

Are you fucking serious? That is quite literally the most idiotic comment I have yet read on this site!!! This site is NOT about being an asshole you asshole!!
This is what Bullshido is about:
Bullshido is about using the power of words and the power of the internet to fight fraud, fakes and bad information in the Martial Arts. Bullshido is something REAL!!!
And there are people who work hard to make this site happen. I can promise you they do NOT do it just to have a place to be an asshole. The people who started this site did it to do good. To create a counterbalance to all the bullshit in the Martial Arts. And you would do well to respect that. It has been estimated that as much as two-thirds of all "Martial Arts Schools" have some kind of false credentials. This site is important. And all the people, you included, who think of this site as just some place to be argumentative and mean, are unintelligent, and they do the Martial Arts a horrible disservice. I start to wonder how old you are!! Because you talk like a 10th Grader. And you know the worse part, you actually make a very good point. You just make it badly, and that is more of a reflection on you than anything. (Just another meathead in the Martial Arts... Great!!!)

P.S. Perhaps I should start a thread on this subject. Perhaps some of the Moderators and Administrators can comment on that... if it's a good idea or not.
Peace, Love & Soul Music,
-Psychedelic

[TehDeadlyDimMak]

You must not know anything about Bullshido...

Most Bullshido members would prefer to ridicule and beat up frauds rather than convert them. And it's not like AM Kempo isn't a target on this site either...

[Mouthfire]

You must not know anything about Bullshido....

Heheh... that figures.... he just joined this month....

[Psychedelic]

Ya, and that's why I joined. Because I thought
I would be participating in some intelligent dialogue.
But if your are telling me I am wrong, if you are telling me that this website is not
about thoughtful discussion about the Martial Arts,
OK then, I will gladly bow out.
I guess I missunderstood.
And as far as American Kenpo being a target...
well, I can tell you something about that,
American Kenpo is something that is very hard to learn right.
There is a very large number of very bad teachers.
Same with JKD, and its becuase they are so similar in thier
conseptual approach and individualistic philosophy.
It is very very hard to find a teacher of either system who is any good,
and even harder to find one who is great.
But my teacher Larry Tatum is amazing.
As far as I'm conserned Ed Parker has NOTHING on Larry Tatum!!!!!
Though I think very hightly of Mr. Parker, don't get me wrong.
And let me tell you, despite the fact that Am-Kenpo gets so much flack,
Larry Tatum doesn't. And considering the fact that he is the most visible man in the system today, that should tell you something . Infact, often when people critisize Am-Kenpo
they say "...except for Larry Tatum".
I can tell you this,
If I for some reason couldn't learn it at Larry Tatum's school,
I wouldn't learn it at all.
It is an absolutely amazing system,
but it is very very hard to learn "right".
Anyway, go fuck yourself.
I'm done with this thread!
(I think...)

[Mouthfire]

Ya, and that's why I joined. Because I thought
I would be participating in some intelligent dialogue.
But if your are telling me I am wrong, if you are telling me that this website is not
about thoughtful discussion about the Martial Arts,
OK then, I will gladly bow out.
I guess I missunderstood.
And as far as American Kenpo being a target...
well, I can tell you something about that,
American Kenpo is something that is very hard to learn right.
There is a very large number of very bad teachers.
Same with JKD, and its becuase they are so similar in thier
conseptual approach and individualistic philosophy.
It is very very hard to find a teacher of either system who is any good,
and even harder to find one who is great.
But my teacher Larry Tatum is amazing.
As far as I'm conserned Ed Parker has NOTHING on Larry Tatum!!!!!
Though I think very hightly of Mr. Parker, don't get me wrong.
And let me tell you, despite the fact that Am-Kenpo gets so much flack,
Larry Tatum doesn't. And considering the fact that he is the most visible man in the system today, that should tell you something . Infact, often when people critisize Am-Kenpo
they say "...except for Larry Tatum".
I can tell you this,
If I for some reason couldn't learn it at Larry Tatum's school,
I wouldn't learn it at all.
It is an absolutely amazing system,
but it is very very hard to learn "right".
Anyway, go fuck yourself.
I'm done with this thread!
(I think...)

Alright, calm down... take a breath..... welcome to the website, but you'll learn pretty quickly that members here don't pull any punches, nor do they hide under the guise of civility.

[TehDeadlyDimMak]

Ya, and that's why I joined. Because I thought
I would be participating in some intelligent dialogue.
But if your are telling me I am wrong, if you are telling me that this website is not
about thoughtful discussion about the Martial Arts,
OK then, I will gladly bow out.
I guess I missunderstood.
And as far as American Kenpo being a target...
well, I can tell you something about that,
American Kenpo is something that is very hard to learn right.
There is a very large number of very bad teachers.
Same with JKD, and its becuase they are so similar in thier
conseptual approach and individualistic philosophy.
It is very very hard to find a teacher of either system who is any good,
and even harder to find one who is great.
But my teacher Larry Tatum is amazing.
As far as I'm conserned Ed Parker has NOTHING on Larry Tatum!!!!!
Though I think very hightly of Mr. Parker, don't get me wrong.
And let me tell you, despite the fact that Am-Kenpo gets so much flack,
Larry Tatum doesn't. And considering the fact that he is the most visible man in the system today, that should tell you something . Infact, often when people critisize Am-Kenpo
they say "...except for Larry Tatum".
I can tell you this,
If I for some reason couldn't learn it at Larry Tatum's school,
I wouldn't learn it at all.
It is an absolutely amazing system,
but it is very very hard to learn "right".
Anyway, go fuck yourself.
I'm done with this thread!
(I think...)

wow... you get upset pretty easy. It's not like Bullshido doesn't do good things. It's just we're going to put things plainly.

[Stringfellow]

Wow.


So far it's been a pretty wild ride. I never imagined when I started with this article that it would end up being the highest-ranking Google page for "Fang Shen Do" (after the official sites). In terms of getting the word out there, I'd have to say "mission accomplished".

This thread has taken a few turns in different directions, and I wanted to turn the spotlight back on Fang Shen Do a bit. Throughout the various posts a number of questions have been raised. Some have been answered, and some have been partially answered. Most of the remaining ones need to be answered by an "authority" within Fang Shen Do. Considering that their participation has largely waned, I don't hold out hope that these will get answered by any of them. The best I can probably hope for is to spark a few new stories from former FSD members. In any case, here are the questions that I feel still have not been answered in a satisfactory manner:

• What exactly were the circumstances of Jacques Patenaude's departure from Wing Chun Do? Was it amicable? Did he leave or was he "kicked out"? Was there a particular event or incident that was the catalyst?
• Does Fang Shen Do have forms or not? If it does not, then what are things like Lin Sil Die Dar, Advanced Doan Chi, and the Mook Jong? How does Fang Shen Do define a form?
• Why can't senior students assist junior students?
• Why are there no black belt students attending classes?
• When a program includes "all test paid for", what exactly does that include (itemized list, please)?
• What are the circumstances surrounding the school "evictions" (e.g. Dino, Brian, and Dan)? Why were these schools shut down / taken over?
• How has Fang Shen Do served the community?
• What kind of leeway do fanchisees have in how they run their schools? Can they offer different seminars or invite instructors from other arts as guest instructors?
• Why is it so expensive? Really.
• Why have none of the other sifus participated in this discussion, or better yet, where is Jacques?

:dontknow:
When we start seeing some of these answers, we'll be making progress again.

[PeterPantsless]

Good list Stringfellow. I'd like to add a few.

What exactly is the Martial Arts Hall of Fame, and how does it work?

This "Inner Circle", is a cash grab. Defend.

Where did the instructors get their weapons certifications from?

Why is there no interaction with other martial arts?

Was there, or was there not, dogshit sniffing? Seriously.

[GreenHornet]

"Does Fang Shen Do have forms or not? If it does not, then what are things like Lin Sil Die Dar, Advanced Doan Chi, and the Mook Jong? How does Fang Shen Do define a form?"

yes technicaly has forms, without mentionning the one you previously named, there is also the "ABCD form" taught at the brown sash level, I'm not adding the "form" in ABCD form, it is the official name, so you could say THEY even admit that they have forms even if when you start in the system they tell will never teach you forms. Basically it's a lie.
Considering this I don't think they even have a real concept of the term form. They say :" no form, no katas" certainly in a marketing perseptive... like everything else. Maybe they do this to ressemble to JKD, or because they want to make you think that you will not have to learn thousand of movements in a memory economy perspective. If thats so its also a lie, or at least a deception since you have to learn all choregraphied exercizes...

[Askari]

PeterPantsless,

We talked about the Hall of Fame earlier in one of the threads, here is a link to the site for the WMAHOF which is basicly a rank buying place where you can exchange ranks with each other. Fraud factory.

About 1/3 of martial arts schools in the US have some sort of fraudulant certification in their history. Sites like this help feret them out.

[It is Fake]

[QUOTE=Psychedelic]

I think the newbs here are forgetting that this is Bullshido. Being an asshole is part and parcel of the site.

Are you fucking serious? That is quite literally the most idiotic comment I have yet read on this site!!! This site is NOT about being an asshole you asshole!!
This is what Bullshido is about:
Bullshido is about using the power of words and the power of the internet to fight fraud, fakes and bad information in the Martial Arts. Bullshido is something REAL!!!
And there are people who work hard to make this site happen. I can promise you they do NOT do it just to have a place to be an asshole. The people who started this site did it to do good. To create a counterbalance to all the bullshit in the Martial Arts. And you would do well to respect that. It has been estimated that as much as two-thirds of all "Martial Arts Schools" have some kind of false credentials. This site is important. And all the people, you included, who think of this site as just some place to be argumentative and mean, are unintelligent, and they do the Martial Arts a horrible disservice. I start to wonder how old you are!! Because you talk like a 10th Grader. And you know the worse part, you actually make a very good point. You just make it badly, and that is more of a reflection on you than anything. (Just another meathead in the Martial Arts... Great!!!)

P.S. Perhaps I should start a thread on this subject. Perhaps some of the Moderators and Administrators can comment on that... if it's a good idea or not.
Peace, Love & Soul Music,
-Psychedelic

Did you read what you wrote? If so, you shouldn't be questioning another persons grade level.

Please start a new thread in General Bullshido With this exact post.

Thank you.

[Shawarma]

So, did the evidence for two sifus fighting and winning MMA ever get posted?

I find that claim a little hard to believe, given that there are no records of the fights anywhere online, which is strange considering there were 5000 people in attendance as well as TV-cameras. I've been to MMA shows with about 150-200 spectators which are very well-documented and can be found at the click of a mouse. Is the Canadian MMA scene just not very internet-happy?