Fang Shen Do

[Haru_the_larger]

But at the same time, the reason why the Bullshido site gets so many hits (and thus ranked so high on Google) is because of its take-no-bullshit stance. Members are loyal to this site because it doesn't cater to the circle-jerk, pat-me-on-the-back martial hobbyist. Otherwise you'd have another one of millions of bland, colorless, IRRELEVANT martial art websites.

Personally, if I were a MA newb with even an iota of intelligence, I probably would have clicked on the site to get a critical view... regardless of its tone.

mouthfire: I agree with you to a point. Despite Jaric's opinion that I am an asshole and an idiot, I chose FSD because I saw the physical and emotional successes reaped from the system by people I knew. What I have learned as far as the economics and politics that have sparked much of this thread did not come until I had been around for a while. I saw the success. It was tangible. I wanted that success.

While I can appreciate your point that you would have clicked on te site for a critical review based on jaric's comments, I would not have as the comment listed above makes it sound like a blowhard spouting off, where as stringfellow's opening remarks at least sound thought out. The tone, in my opinion, is as important as the content. In addition, by bashing everyone, Jaric has likely shoved away input from some of the quieter dissenters of FSD, and inflammed others, instead of promoting further discussion.

I think this, and the other FSD thread, were moving along fine with some critical questions being asked, and a lot of input by sifus, current students and former students. I don't think it was a circle jerk, or that the discussion was irrelevant.

Keep your soapbox handy. They can be useful for getting peanut butter off the top shelf.

[n00b]

Please note, I do not always agree with Haru. I, for instance, keep my peanut butter on the lower shelves.

(And I *do* appreciate a good rant, swearing and gibbering, and all)

[Jaric]

So let me get this straight. You think that because I use adult language and becuase I have said that I think FSD is a terrible martial art, it will scare people away? Good then. They are on the wrong site in the first place. Like I said they should hurry over to MAP. And what exactly needs to be duscussed more? That FSD is a McDojo? Thats been done. That the teachers promote a cult like tradition with madatory summer camps and smelling dog shit? Thats been done also. That two 'sifu' say they did a MMA tournament but with not evidence? Thats been done also. Show me something that need to be talked about in a reasonable matter and ill talk about it reasonably.

[It is Fake]

Jaric: He is trying to be subtle. Long worded responses and name calling covered in a huge post.

He is hoping to deflect focus on FSD.

He is just better than the others at deflecting attention from FSD.

Scott, and many others, disappeared long before you posted.

[Mouthfire]

mouthfire: I agree with you to a point. Despite Jaric's opinion that I am an asshole and an idiot, I chose FSD because I saw the physical and emotional successes reaped from the system by people I knew. What I have learned as far as the economics and politics that have sparked much of this thread did not come until I had been around for a while. I saw the success. It was tangible. I wanted that success.

While I can appreciate your point that you would have clicked on te site for a critical review based on jaric's comments, I would not have as the comment listed above makes it sound like a blowhard spouting off, where as stringfellow's opening remarks at least sound thought out. The tone, in my opinion, is as important as the content. In addition, by bashing everyone, Jaric has likely shoved away input from some of the quieter dissenters of FSD, and inflammed others, instead of promoting further discussion.

I think this, and the other FSD thread, were moving along fine with some critical questions being asked, and a lot of input by sifus, current students and former students. I don't think it was a circle jerk, or that the discussion was irrelevant.

Keep your soapbox handy. They can be useful for getting peanut butter off the top shelf.

My point being, Haru, that this site gets its message out pretty effective because of the people who are loyal to its modus operandi. If it weren't for the no-holds-barred attitude towards bullshit, we probably wouldn't even be having this thread on this website.

*off my soapbox again*

BTW I don't even like peanut butter....

[Haru_the_larger]

is it fake: In fact, I am trying to bring the discussion back to FSD, not deflect attention away from it. I have said repeatedly that I agreed with almost every critisicm pointed at FSD. Why would I want the discussion to move away from that?

jaric: How is it a bad thing to want more people to come on and add to the body of knowledge, even if they are simply adding to the case that FSD needs change?

mouthfire: perhaps jam?

[Cdnronin]

Jaric: He is trying to be subtle. Long worded responses and name calling covered in a huge post.

He is hoping to deflect focus on FSD.

He is just better than the others at deflecting attention from FSD.

Scott, and many others, disappeared long before you posted.

I will type this slowly, so you can understand. I am not trying to deflect focus on FSD. If you look at previous threads on the same subject, you will see what I have said about them.

Sometimes when adults are having a conversation, children join in, sometimes the conversation drops to their level of understanding, sometimes the children get shut out of that conversation. Several people have mentioned getting back to a SERIOUS discussion.

I could type more but then I would be trying to hide something, right? Buy a fuckin' clue.

[PeterPantsless]

You know, I'm all for bashing martial arts, and having challenge matches, and such...
But I'll be damned if I am going to sit here and listen to anyone bash peanut butter!! What the hell is wrong with you people?!!?

My peanut butter may be more expensive than all the other, so-called, peanut butters, out there. But you are paying for quality!!!

Yes, you have to pay more, to use the recipe on the back, big deal. But if you want the best recipes, you have to join the "Inner Shell", at cost of $98.95 per month. You supply your own, dishes and utensils, available in our gift shop!

Now our peanut butter may not enter those "cooking contests". But that is only because some of our superior ingredients, are not allowed, in competition. Too damn good!

Where did our great recipe come from? Ahem.. Let's talk about something else.

Sorry.. Way too much time on my hands.

[n00b]

On the other hand, it *IS* also good to see that people do have strong feelings about these types of things. I can definitely get behind that! Bullshido does have a good rep for not accepting bullshit.

It's the main reason why I don't teach my fireball techiques to the public...

[n00b]

<stewart> mmmm. that's good satire! </stewart>

[missile]

missle: I didn't realize the thread was a competition.

Actually that's a running joke around here. Try reading more.

As for Fang Sheng Do, I don't see why we should have to mince our words on this subject. Shall we have a look at the bullshido checklist?

1. Extravagant claims of effectiveness, without any evidence whatsoever? Check.

2. Similarly extravagant fees demanded of students? Check.

3. Dogmatic adherence to so-called scientific but completely unproven training methods? Check.

4. Asian name for a martial art created by a white guy, and other trappings of orientophilia? Check.

So far, so good. Now we can go to the bonus round:

5. Veneration of a living Sifu or master? Check.

6. Military style saluting and training camps? Check.

7. Bizarre rituals? Check -- see the dog poo thing, several pages ago.

As you can see, FSD is a very special kind of bullshido -- a wacky martial arts cult. It would all be hilarious if it weren't so sad. FSD is not redeemable or reformable, and I see no reason to humor that kind discussion.

[It is Fake]

I will type this slowly, so you can understand. I am not trying to deflect focus on FSD. If you look at previous threads on the same subject, you will see what I have said about them.

Sometimes when adults are having a conversation, children join in, sometimes the conversation drops to their level of understanding, sometimes the children get shut out of that conversation. Several people have mentioned getting back to a SERIOUS discussion.

I could type more but then I would be trying to hide something, right? Buy a fuckin' clue.

Nope I'm talking about Haru The Larger. If you could read you'd see I am addressing things he said in his posts.

Yours were neither long nor full of shit until now. If you where above a kindegarten level of reading comphrehension you would know this on first glance.

[PeterPantsless]

As far as the system's lack of black sashes:

Besides the cult, and the money, I believe at black sash you really have nowhere to go in the system. Martial arts have evolved so much in the last twenty years, and I believe many people have a different interpretation of what the martial arts are, these days. Many traditional schools have added other elements to thier curriculem, be it grappling, MMA, or just being a well rounded martial artist. Many times the instructor brings in others to teach different arts, that they cannot teach themselves.

I believe Fang Shen Do has dropped the ball on this one. In my opinion, they kept the "we are the best", mantra, isolating themselves from a changing martial arts community, and failed to evolve.

Advanced students eventually realise, that there is a big martial arts world out there, and choose to be a part of it. Staying to practice lin sil di dar, just won't cut it. I also think many new students will be looking for an MMA enviroment, with the UFC being so popular, and all, and not be looking for any type of 70's era JKD.

That is just my opinion, and I'm still pissed about the peanut butter thing.

[PeterPantsless]

And the whole smelling of dogshit thing, is just not defendable. Wow.

[Cdnronin]

Nope I'm talking about Haru The Larger. If you could read you'd see I am addressing things he said in his posts.

Yours were neither long nor full of shit until now. If you where above a kindegarten level of reading comphrehension you would know this on first glance.

Dang! I humbly apologise, and take back all those nasty things I said. Off to go study Hooked on Phonics.