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    #46
    Chung Moo Doe

    Leader: John C. Kim, aka Chong Su Nim "Iron" Kim

    Alternate Names:
    Chung Moo Quan
    Oom Yung Doe
    8 Martial Arts for Health

    The following information has been provided by former members of Chung Moo Doe:

    Description of the Group: This is a personality cult using a chain of martial arts schools
    as its "front". People, particularly men, are lured into the group thinking it's a martial arts
    school, and they're going to learn about self defense, getting in shape, etc. Instead, they're
    subjected to mind control techniques to essentially get them to worship Chung Moo's
    founder, John C. Kim. Exhorbitant lesson fees are charged, providing Kim and his people
    with large amounts of money. In 1996, Kim and several of his top people were convicted of
    conspiracy to defraud the United States of America.

    Behaviors: Students of Chung Moo were pressured to move in together, and keep the
    "respect line" (the way we treated one another in school) the same on the outside as well
    as inside the school. People critical of Chung Moo, including parents, were to be
    shunned and kept in the dark about what really went on. Students, and particularly
    instructors from what I could see, were strongly urged to wear their hair and dress as
    John C. Kim did. Also, there was a general disapproval of dressing well among the students,
    as that meant you had money for clothes that could have gone towards John C. Kim.

    Dietary restrictions weren't a big thing in my experience with the group, though eating hot
    soup and hot Korean food was encouraged during times of sickness, rather than consulting
    a physician. Sleep was highly regulated in Chung Moo. On more than one occasion instructors
    urged students to sleep only a few hours a night, and boasted how little sleep they themselves
    needed. It was said that the Chung Moo forms (martial arts movements) could replace the
    human body's need for sleep.

    Finances and money were a huge focus of Chung Moo; it's almost impossible to overstate
    the importance of money in the organization. Quite simply, past a certain point, you were
    expected to hand over all your extra money for Chung Moo lessons and teachings. Cash
    only, and it was disrespectful to ask for receipts, or copies of membership contracts. Students
    were encouraged to spend all their free time either at the school or in the company of other
    Chung Moo members. Association with people not in the group was discouraged. Multiple
    jobs were often encouraged to help students pay the lesson fees, limiting their time even more.

    Chung Moo required lots of an individual's time, not only with regular lessons, but special
    private lessons, belt courses, etc. These were strenuous workouts followed by indoctrination
    sessions. Once, I recall we had to hold extremely strenuous body positions, zoning ourselves
    out to block out the pain, and the instructors turned out the lights and had us all count out
    loud in a droning, monotone voice, putting us into an altered state of consciousness. It
    was unthought of for people to act on their own without consulting instructors. College
    was a decision that was frowned upon.

    People definitely had to report what they were thinking and doing, and the activities of
    others, to the instructors. In one instance, I was forced to admit in front of fellow students
    that I was a virgin. Instructors constantly badgered people with questions about their
    personal lives, finances, etc., and it was easily obvious that choosing not to answer would
    result in ostracization or ejection from the group, or, if you were a longtime member, verbal
    harassment and even physical assaults. You were praised and rewarded for bringing down
    more money to the school and for appearing to try hard. If the instructors perceived you
    weren't trying hard, or weren't bringing in enough money, you were subjected to humiliation
    and beatings.

    People were not at all encouraged to think as individuals. School always had to come first.
    Whenever an individual thought was expressed, "watch what you say" was the common
    response. Any semblance of "talking back" to instructors was met with harshly. Chung
    Moo had extremely rigid rules of conduct; when to bow, how to bow, how to act, how to
    speak, what to do. The rules and rituals overshadowed everything you did in a Chung Moo
    school, and often what you did outside. Students were expected to be totally subservient to
    John C. Kim, even if they never actually met him (like myself--I never met Kim). We were
    supposed to bow to his picture, bring down more money for the school on Kim's birthday
    (said to be April 1st), and pay towards lessons to show respect to Kim. We were trained
    to be dependent upon the group, often indoctrinated that Chung Moo was the highest
    expression of what it could be to be a person in this life.

    Information: It was said Kim was the "champion of all Asia", when no such title has ever
    existed. Claims were made about what Chung Moo could do (cure disease,etc.) that have
    never been backed up. Prices for the lessons weren't openly advertised. Forms and
    movements were held "secret", only to be seen by those who'd paid the high lesson prices.
    We were certainly kept quite busy, so we really didn't have time to think. With keeping
    members from anti-cult information, it really didn't come out about what Chung Moo
    really was until a couple of years after I'd left, so that really doesn't apply. However, we
    definitely were encouraged to look down on those who'd left the group.

    Information was strictly controlled in the organization. Claims about Kim's near-supernatural
    abilities were never disclosed up front, only after a period of indoctrination. Instructors
    strictly controlled which students knew what about the organization and what it truly
    required. Students knew the least, instructors knew more, head instructors knew even
    more, and regional instructors knew more still. There was a near-worship for people above
    you, with the ultimate worship reserved for Kim. Spying was encouraged. I was involved a
    few times in bringing to instructors' attention the fact that other students were deviating
    from Chung Moo principles. The doctrine, not personal relationships, mattered most.
    Instructors encouraged certain students to "pal around" with certain others. The "blue
    literature", the standard Chung Moo pamphlet, was held nearly as important as a Bible
    to a Christian. People definitely suffered after having confessed things to instructors.
    When an instructor asked something, you had no choice whether to refuse. Information
    said in private could be made public any time, and was. I was present when several
    students were embarrassed this way.

    Thought: An us-vs.-them mentality was indeed prevalent at Chung Moo. The outsiders
    were the "goofy ones", where we really knew what was going on. You were either in Chung
    Moo or out of it, no in-between. People's relevancy was judged based on whether or not
    they had "Chung Moo". Loaded language was perhaps the most startling aspect of Chung
    Moo to those not part of the group. Very strict speech patterns dominated, such as "Be all
    right to ask yourself?" when asking a question to an instructor, "more faster ways", when
    wanting something done quickly, "more goofy ways" to describe a person's actions, etc.
    No independent thoughts were encouraged, only thoughts towards Chung Moo and
    how you could better your life in it, mainly by bringing down more money.

    Thought-stopping techniques such as meditation and deep breathing were used, also the
    Chung Moo-famous position-holding, where you held several positions, sometimes for
    minutes at a time. It hurt so much you zoned out, causing a halt of all critical thinking.
    Critical opinions about John C. Kim were not only seen as illegitimate, but they could
    result in your being beaten if you voiced them. Chung Moo had all the answers to life's
    questions. Nothing -- not religion, not family -- could take the place of having your life
    right in Chung Moo.

    Emotional: The rigidity present in the organization allowed for very little emotional expression.
    Even after an instructor hit you and you were in pain, you had to "suck it up" and not show
    emotion. Students were always at fault for what they did. A few times, I was beaten and badly
    hurt by instructors, who always justified their actions by saying to me that I wasn't trying hard
    enough, which is why they hurt me. They never admitted any mistakes. Guilt was widely used
    in Chung Moo, particularly when comparing what we'd been through in our lives to supposedly
    what John C. Kim had been through in his. (There were claims Kim had lived in the mountains for
    seven years, living with animals, etc.) The only thing that rivalled the importance of money in
    Chung Moo was the use of fear. You were in a state of low-grade terror nearly every moment
    you were in a school, thinking about whether this was the night an instructor would single you
    out to be hurt. This released adrenaline constantly into the blood, which produced something
    like a low-level stress disorder, further inhibiting your critical thinking.

    Emotional highs and lows were very prevalent. Of course, outward display had to be
    controlled, but inwardly, when the instructors got down on you, you felt terrible, but to
    receive praise was like receiving a blessing directly from God. Students, including myself,
    were regularly forced to confess "sins" to the instructors and the rest of the class. Chung
    Moo indoctrinated people into thinking their minds and bodies would essentially turn to
    mush if they ever left Chung Moo. We'd be lost in the forest with no guide.


    Front Organizations:
    National Association of Martial Arts Educators (NAMAE)

    "Traditional Asian Health Methods" seminars

    Other Sources of Information:
    "Chung Moo Quan: The Cult & The Con."
    Reported by Pam Zekman. WBBM-TV, Chicago. 1989.

    Kahn, Ric. "Chung Moonies? Critics Call Martial Arts Club a Cult of Violence and Greed."
    Boston Phoenix, Oct. 25, 1991.

    Vogel, Jennifer. "Be True to Your School: The Dark Side of the Moo." City Pages
    (Minn/St. Paul), Apr. 1, 1992.

    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists and the Dominate Prevailing Force in the martial arts political arena

    http://forums.delphiforums.com/testing12345703/start
    Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

    Comment


      #47
      JACK STERN -The Great Pretender The biggest fake to ever invade the martial arts
      community

      By: Ernie Lopez

      Jack Stern, a 67-year old, retired bread-truck driver, wept uncontrollably throughout
      his sentencing hearing. The Law finally caught up with Jackie Albert Stern. He has
      pleaded guilty and has been sentenced. The sporadic articles confirming Stern's
      guilty plea culminated in a three day media frenzy in South Florida over his sentencing.
      He finally obtained the exposure and recognition through media coverage that he so
      ardently sought with his lies and made up past.

      What we knew at the begining of 1996

      Jackie Stern, was a Congressional Medal of Honor winner and Prisoner
      of War in Korea. He bravely escaped after hiding himself among corpses
      during a forced march, where he received a large wound to his abdomen
      from the bayonet of a North Korean soldier and did not even emit a sound
      to avoid detection. He did not feel he had done enough to serve his
      country, and he stayed in the armed forces and served with Air America
      and with the CIA. Through all the years he spent in the armed forces in
      the Far East, he spent every minute of his free time studying martial arts
      with the great masters. That is why his judo & jiu jitsu were better than
      the people that studied in this country - he had studied at the birth place
      of these martial arts. After he retired from the armed forces he went back
      to New York City and became a policeman. He retired as a decorated
      detective from an elite unit. He had been in Judo over 50 years. His son
      had won an Olympic gold medal in Judo. He headed a Jiu Jitsu system he
      had inherited and the respected Korean Yudo Association. Even Time
      Magazine had honored him by putting him on their front cover. Because
      of his war record most martial arts magazines had featured him and
      several halls of fame had inducted him. WOW what a resume!

      What we know at the end of 1996

      Jack Stern pleaded guilty in U.S. District Court in Fort Lauderdale to
      wearing a Congressional Medal of Honor without authorization and
      altering his military discharge papers to fraudulently obtain State of
      Florida tags issued exclusively to Purple Heart recipients. Stern never
      served in combat. He made up the story that he had been a Korean
      Prisoner of War. In fact, the story he related as to how he escaped
      comes from a movie - just like the story that he cut the ears off the
      dead North Korean soldiers and hung them around his neck. Rather
      difficult feat to accomplish considering the fact that according to the
      Broward Sheriff's Office Sgt. Danny Ciacciarelli, "Stern never set foot
      in a continent where blood was shed". If Stern was never in the armed
      forces in the Far East, it becomes obvious that the stories of training
      with the great masters of the Far East is just one more lie. Stern never
      trained in martial arts overseas. In sounds kind of redundant to say he
      was never in the CIA and never served with Air America.

      So we know now that he was not a Medal of Honor winner or a Prisoner
      of War. He was not in the CIA, and he did not train with the great
      masters of the Far East. Stern was never a New York City detective
      as he claims. It's anyone's guess how he got the New York Police badge
      he kept flaunting around. It is our understanding that in New York there
      is a jail sentence attached to this offense. Stern was a bread truck driver.
      There is nothing wrong with being a bread truck driver - its an honorable
      profession, far more honorable than what Mr. Stern actions have been
      for the last few years.

      There is no data to substantiate Mr. Stern's 50 years in Judo. However,
      someone that had the certificate in Japanese translated, (which Mr.
      Stern claims names him as inheritor of a Jiu Jitsu system) states that
      all the certificate says is that Stern is authorized to teach that system
      in South Florida.

      The lie about his son being a Judo Olympic gold medalist was a source
      of amusement to most people he told it to. In the first place anyone
      that has been active in Judo through the years knows the names of
      their medalist. The people not in judo were also amused when Stern
      proudly stated that his son won the gold medal in the 1987 Olympics.
      This one was difficult to swallow, especially by Taekwondo people that
      remember 1988 as the year taekwondo was included in the Olympic
      Games in Korea as a demonstration sport. There were no Olympics in
      1987.

      As has been reported in the local newspapers Stern's picture on the
      front cover of Times magazine was nothing more than one of those
      gags that can be bought in an amusement park. Stern's lied his way
      into a martial arts school in the Weston area, a suburb of Fort Lauderdale.
      Having the legitimacy of being an instructor in a martial arts school,
      Stern proceeded to call all the martial arts hall's of fame. His Medal of
      Honor claim was one that the halls of fame could not resist and in 1995
      he was inducted into all the places that he bothered to chase. He did
      not have any martial arts achievements. It was just his claim of the
      medal of honor that the halls of fame reacted too. The cruelest hoax
      was the one he perpetuated on his own students. While teaching in the
      Weston school, he charged everyone for membership in the Korean Yudo
      Association, who issued rank certificates. This turns out to be an
      nonexistent organization in the State of Florida. It has no corporation
      papers, no D.B.A. records, no bank account and has filed no tax returns.
      Certificates were worthless - just as the similar promotion certificates
      he supposedly got from Korea are worthless.

      What Mr. Stern had hanging on the wall in early 1996 pertaining to his
      rank were two certificates. One for 6th Dan issued by the nonexistent
      Korean Yudo Association, signed by himself, dated 1995. The other one
      supposedly came from Korea in the same year for 7th Dan. Basically Mr.
      Stern's claim to rank based on those two certificates is worthless. It
      does not matter whether he is a hustler or he is mentally ill. The fact is
      that he is a FAKE. A Grandmaster only among fakes. A figment of his own
      imagination. A legend only in his own mind. Yet he had the gall to look
      down on and speak ill of every martial artist he ever met. It was like he
      was validating himself by degrading everyone else. The media frenzy has
      been over Jackie the fake Medal of Honor winner. It should have been
      extended to include Jackie the fake martial artist. It appears that Stern
      may have also committed fraud in his involvement in the martial arts - a
      crime for which he still has not had to face a judge.

      Some martial artist are talking about causing charges to be brought
      against Stern for fraud if he continues with his martial arts claims.
      Although newspaper articles and people present at the sentencing say
      that Stern apologized to everyone military, police and martial artists.
      Other evidence indicates that Stern may still try to pass himself as a
      martial artist of prominence. Halls of fame are already expelling him,
      without the claim to the medal he has no martial arts accomplishment
      to qualify him for membership. However there are still misguided souls -
      like the owner of the karate school where Stern was teaching, who
      appears in the local press to be avidly defending Mr. Stern describing
      the incident as something that happened in the past, but not something
      that detracts from him as a martial artist. I may be wrong, but it seems
      to me that the basic premise of the martial arts is based on honesty,
      integrity, character, decency, forthrightness, nobility, credibility. It has
      become obvious that Mr. Stern does not possess these qualities,
      therefore, he has no business in the martial arts, he has no business
      teaching children.

      PHOTO As part of the hoax he perpetuated on the martial arts community,
      in his unquenchable thirst for publicity, Jack Stern's arranged for his
      picture to appear in a set of collectors cards meant to showcase martial
      artists with real credentials and life achievements. He identified the
      basis of his claim to fame to having been trained in Korea, Japan, Philippines
      and England. We know now according to Sgt. Danny Ciacciarelli from the
      Broward Sheriff's Office that Mr. Stern never set foot in a continent
      where blood was shed. His other claim to fame was his induction into
      the prestigious Soke Council. The information that we have is, that the
      Soke Council had bought into the legitimacy of Stern's claim to the
      Congressional Medal of Honor (a medal that through his own admission
      he bought in a New Jersey flea market), has now removed Stern's name
      from their membership. Mr. Stern with his lies and forgeries desecrated
      the life achievements of the martial artists depicted in those cards and
      the ones inducted into the Soke Council.

      Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists and the Dominate Prevailing Force in the martial arts political arena

      http://forums.delphiforums.com/testing12345703/start
      Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

      Comment


        #48
        By Kungfoolss

        (M/Sunny Hawaii) 2/24/02 6:49 pm

        This post really made my eyes roll at the Dragon Elite forum, some other stylist was asking a
        George Dillman-type (the deadly pressure point mystic) for his expertise and here was this
        guys comments -

        ***********************************************

        Re: PRESSURE POINT ATTACKS

        By Mystery_1964

        (37/M/Gresham, OR) 2/24/02 6:32 am


        I myself don't teach publicly the pressure point and nerve attacks I know best, mostly
        because of the public nature of such bulliten boards. The last thing I wanna hear is how
        my instructions were perverted by someone and used to harm someone, just because I
        knew some "tricks" or extremely useful techniques that work well.

        Please understand it is NOTHING against you for my decision. I learned this the hard
        way.

        *************************************************
        KFss - Oh please spare me. This is the same type of crappy explanation you get from the
        other charlatans in qi-gong or chi powers group. They'll demonstrate some supernatural
        move that sends a guy flying with a mere touch or they'll just poke one of their own students
        in the body somewhere and inducing an electrical jolt or surge of debilitating energy. But
        if you ask these martial wonders to prove their abilities to a stranger, their comment is always,
        "No, I can't because my chi power will severely injure you and may even kill you. And I won't
        be responsible for that." Or, "Well, you know I'd like to tell you how to do that technique
        'so-and-so', but in good judgment I can't tell you how to perform that lethal movement.
        Also, how do I know that some bad guy surfing the web won't use what I say for evil on
        an unsuspecting innocent?"

        This is the oldest trick in the book of obfuscation. What they really mean is that they
        don't want their words to be analyzed or judged and to be placed under detailed scrutiny.
        It's just another convenient escape for an undereducated stylist. Sadly, many martial artists
        buy into this lie and remark how "wise" these individuals appear to be...(sic).

        It's really kinda of sad people still believe in these fairy tales in an age of technological and
        scientific advances.

        Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists and the Dominate Prevailing Force in the martial arts political arena

        http://forums.delphiforums.com/testing12345703/start
        Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

        Comment


          #49
          The Disturbing Visage of martial arts Voodoo...

          By Kungfoolss

          (M/Sunny Hawaii) 5/03/02 7:39 pm

          Dateline - May 1st, 2002, 20:35 pm Hawaiian Standard Time

          Subject - A very Warped martial artist featured on a National late night radio talk
          show

          Before I go into my commentary, I have to share with everyone a personal experience of
          mine, this particular show disturbed my friend in Colorado so much, he actually called me
          yesterday, May 2nd, (I'm assuming the show was broadcast at a later date in his time zone)
          just to tell about this martial arts loon he was listening to state the most outrageous things.
          And I told him, "Yes, I heard the broadcast the day previously, and planned a psychoanalysis
          on that very program. Now, you may be wondering, what possibly could a martial artist say
          that was so unholy that would have my mainland buddy telephoning me long-distance just
          to discuss a radio talk show? (Nodding) Well, let's stop speculating shall we and get to the
          heart of the matter, martial arts Voodoo.

          It all begins on a humid tropical night, there I was seated in my car at Kapiolani Park
          waiting for my workout partner to arrive. The night was late, around 8'ish, the parking
          meters were packed because the Waikiki Shell was holding a Hawaiian-style music concert
          and from the sounds of the local crowd, they were having a festive time. My partner
          informed me he would be running a bit late, so to pass the time, I tuned into my favorite
          radio talkshow station and beginning listening. Upon the conclusion to the hourly news
          updates, a song familiar to many martial arts enthusiasts came blaring through my radio,
          "..They were kung fu fighting, their kicks was fast as lightening..." And I thought to myself,
          "What in the world?"

          After playing that song for a minute or so, it soon became apparent why the host opened
          the his show with that song, his guest was none other than a martial artist; I might add, a
          very deluded one at that. The host proclaimed that his guest was Tom Cameron,
          "the Human Stun Gun," and claimed to able to knock his attackers down, knock them out
          and in some cases without even having to touch his opponent. (Gee, what I wouldn't give
          to see this guy at Mr. Larkin's camp trying to convince the Master Close Combat Instructor
          of his outlandish marital arts claims)

          Tom Cameron discussed the origins of his "mysterious" powers of the arts and the usual
          martial arts ideologue regarding how Tom channels this energy to affect his opponents.
          The Human Stun Gun went on to recite his vast knowledge of the human anatomy and how
          his powers could affect it, this is a typical tactic of the stylists to cloud the issues by using
          very technical medical phrases and terminology in order to impress the layman and lend
          credibility to their claims. When Tom was asked to give an example of the types of things he's
          done, Tom stated, "I had my student attack me with a knife, all I have to do is 'TAP' his elbow
          and that put him into cardiac arrest. We've done the medical tests, we placed an EKG
          (electrocardiogram-an electrical recording of the heart) on the guy, and we had an EMT
          (Emergency Medical Technician) monitoring the device." The nutcase went on to claim,
          that when he saw that his student was nearing a life-threatening point, he miraculously
          reversed the procedure and restored his ailing student back to health.

          Cameron when asked about his chi powers effective range without touching his opponent,
          he states that it is about 4 ft. Also, his "powers" trasmits through windows, but not walls.
          (Rolling eyes)

          After a time, Tom iterates that he cannot possibly go on with the show until he
          acknowledges the reason he can do these superhuman feats and attributes his abilities to
          one man (at this point I knew what was coming). And as soon as I heard him say,
          'Grandmaster George Dillman,' I groaned out loud, "Oh god, I should've known." If that
          weren't bad enough, Cameron boasted that his Master could touch a person and that
          individual would not feel the effects until days later. The talkshow host got very animated
          and said, "You mean to tell me, that he could shake your hand and you wouldn't know
          that he murdered you until days later?!?" Tom said, "Yep, and that's the most frightening,
          that someone can literally TAP you and murder you and you wouldn't know if for days later."
          My thoughts at that particular point were, the most frightening part about this whole
          Bravo Sierra, is that these people actually believe this martial arts nonsense and people like
          Tom and his master George Dillman, perpetuate this lie by instructing others.

          Tom went on to brag, "That's one of the aspects of the art I refuse to learn because it's so
          scary. But even with my level of ability, I've told lawyers that I could go in front of a judge,
          in front of a jury and commit murder and never be convicted. Nobodies would convict me
          for murdering someone because I hit them with an energy blast." I know one thing for
          certain, if I had the legal authority, I'd commit Tom to the lunatic asylum for being delusional
          and a danger to his students. Any individual who believes these martial arts fantasies,
          desperately needs to be locked away and heavily sedated with medication.

          The talkshow host in amazement asked, "So how would these powers manifest themselves
          in their victims?" Tom causally states, "Well, the power themselves wouldn't be readily
          apparent, but would be in a form of heart computations, a blood clot and so forth." Well,
          isn't that convenient? Because it "MAY" appear that the victim of a chi attack died of
          natural causes, there's no way to validate the failure or success from Toms point of view.
          This is got to be the biggest load of CRAP I have ever heard a martial artist express, and
          believe me when I say, I've been exposed to a lot of it. The guy the chi practitioner touched,
          in all probability, died of natural causes and it had absolutely nothing to do with some
          focused energy attack by some nutcase martial artist. Case in point, I knew a really nice
          guy that worked at a local video store, I was saddened when I learned that he died of a
          massive stroke. Now if I were some very twisted or warped chi stylist like Tom, I could say,
          "Yah, I didn't care for the guy, so when I shook his hand, I disrupted the internal balance
          of his energy and that's what set off the fatal stroke."

          That's exactly how this crap gets perpetuated, not because some mystical force the
          deranged martial artist imagines he has, but because of coincidence and a previous medical
          condition that an individual had that killed him, such as high blood pressure. Incidentally,
          this is the same symptom and mindset of jesus-freaks and religious radicals, that when they
          "pray" to an imaginary deity, that such a wishful invocation, has a chance in hell of altering
          reality as they know it. Trust me, no god or angel will manifest themselves to do your bidding
          or have the power to alter your circumstance regardless how much you pray. This is only a
          delusion religious individuals use to escape the crisis of the moment or to create a sense of
          serenity to cope with the chaos of the real world. As James Randi once told me when I asked
          him about his religious beliefs, "I don't need such things to know how the world works."
          In any case, I hope you are seeing the parallels I often draw between the belief structure of
          the martial arts and religion, both require an unrealistic and unhealthy amount of faith to
          ignore the obvious lies in either body of beliefs, I continually find this aspect to both disturbing
          and troubling.

          The talkshow host asked if Tom the martial arts wacko would teach him and the listening
          audience some techniques, to defeat their attackers. And Tom happily agrees to share the
          fruits of his knowledge and begins, "Let's say someone is attempting to attack you or grab
          you by the lapels, all you need to do is take your one of your hands and press the palm to
          the attackers eyebrow and place the other directly behind to the back of the neck, and with
          this hand to the back of his neck you Tap him. This will incapacitate your attacker. If you
          do this hard, you could kill him, I always tell everyone, that it requires the same amount of
          pressure and force as cracking an egg shell." (Rolling eyes)

          Well, I'm sure you get the crux of this commentary without me having to analyze to death the
          stupidity of this mans claims, but I will end this with one additional piece idiocy, he supposedly
          has email addresses on AOL, Yahoo, and Excite servers under the ridiculous name,
          "DeathtouchTom." (Shaking head)





          Edited by - kungfoolss on August 23 2002 13:53:21
          Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

          Comment


            #50
            Blindfighting the krap maga way...

            By Kungfoolss

            (M/Sunny Hawaii) 6/17/02 8:14 PM

            If this piece weren't so pathetic, it would be hilarious, especially seeing how such obviously
            flawed information will get students killed...

            The following was retrieved from the krav maga forum-

            "Infiltrator

            11:47 am on 5.22.2002

            ... I am a strong believer in Krav Maga...we actually did a drill on that yesterday. We were
            supposed to visualize the opponent in the other end of the room, close our eyes, run towards
            them with our eyes closed, get hold of their arm, shoulder, etc. so we could identify where all
            other body parts were and strike them with typical krav strikes with our eyes closed. Our
            instructor would even tell us what targets to strike. Then we also included obstacles on our
            way to the target. And guess what, we were in complete darkness and all could land their
            strikes successfully."

            KFss- .............................................ALRIG HTY THEN. I know this is going to appear on the
            outset a waste of time to even analyze by SCFF standards, but for our krav maga children,
            I thought they might once again benefit from my professional knowledge and wisdom.

            On the surface, this appears to be an "excellent" way to train for night-fighting capabilities
            or being blinded by whatever circumstance you can envision as a stylistic instructor; making
            the student comfortable with his inability to see their opponent. In reality, the entire approach
            is silly and without a shred of merit. Allow me to enlighten the John Whitman's of the world,
            the scenario is based on a faulty supposition of charging BLINDLY at an attacker across the
            length of a room and expecting the attacker not to move. Furthermore, as the krav maga fool is
            wailing away with the typical static non-penetrating strikes, the attacker is YET AGAIN expected
            not to react to the assault or counter the vision impaired neophyte.

            Sadly, the nonsensical training does not end there, as they are charging blindly across the
            room intent on taking out their attacker, they are made to navigate a safe course around the
            various objects that may be placed in their path? Come on...get real. As a simple experiment
            for debunking this garbage, go into any room of your house or apartment and play out this
            martial arts idiocy for yourselves, imagine for a moment, there's an attacker on the other end
            of the room and you're blind, BUT, assume perhaps you are in a foreign environment or maybe
            you forgot you had placed a heavy object such as a dumbbell or footstool that is now in your
            path as you charge your way across the room. What do you suppose will happen? Most likely,
            you'll smack it, trip over it, and go crashing to the ground with a lot of pain shooting through
            your foot or leg (and this is assuming that you did not hit any additional furniture on your
            way down) all because you were stupid and trained by amateurs at the krav maga dojos.

            "Just assume that krav IS a complete system and if you see any flaws, just expect to
            accept that you are the one who is missing the point..."

            KFss- Complete BS if that's what you mean. You've got to be kidding me, if anyone's
            missing the boat and "BLIND" to the pitfalls of this dangerous training, it's the krav maga
            dorko spouting this nonsense as a viable form of combat training. How ridiculous.
            (Shaking head)

            Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists and the Dominate Prevailing Force in the martial arts political arena

            http://forums.delphiforums.com/testing12345703/start
            Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

            Comment


              #51
              I think most people suck when they can't see - stay low and keep moving is my advice.

              By being low you will limit the ranges of attack to half of what they were - if he throws a random attack up high you won't be there. (Keep your guard up) Also, you might see him against a window, the sky or the cieling or something while he can't see you against the floor or ground.

              Keep moving because then you will find the weapon, escape route or geographical advantage before he does - try to keep quiet though. You might be able to hear him first and get an advantage. You could also throw something to make him think you are somewhere else - or hit him.

              Comment


                #52
                Instructor Arrested, Charged With Vandalism -

                (1993) Los Banos, CA. Merced County Sheriff's deputies recently arrested martial arts instructor Dan Burnette and charged him with vandalism after he allegedly destroyed several headstones at the Los Banos Cemetery here. According to the Lieutenant Bill Blake, Burnette and a friend entered the cemetery and began practicing "karate chops" and kicks on headstones, breaking several of the granite slabs. Burnette was released on $5000 bail and was awaiting arraignment at press time.

                Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists and the Dominate Prevailing Force in the martial arts political arena

                http://forums.delphiforums.com/testing12345703/start
                Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

                Comment


                  #53
                  Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

                  Comment


                    #54
                    "Yet he had the gall to look down on and speak ill of every martial artist he ever met. It was like he was validating himself by degrading everyone else."

                    Sounds familiar.

                    Where do you find all this stuff?

                    The guys breaking headstones with punches and kicks, are they bad martial artists or just stupid?

                    McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Good thing he had the gun or he would be a shishkabob on wheels. What would of happened if the guy didn't pull his blade until the last minute?

                      McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?

                      Comment


                        #56
                        "The following commentary is another stellar example of martial arts stupidity and amateurish
                        ignorance -
                        "
                        Is it possible to change the tone of all this to:

                        stupidity and ignorance in the name of martial arts. There should be a distinction.

                        McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?

                        Comment


                          #57
                          KFDW,

                          A. I found these items in martial arts magazines, martial arts related articles on various news sites and other martial arts forums.

                          B. A cane is an impact weapon and can be used to harm others, whether it concealed a blade or not does not alter that fact, especially if the attackers posture was menacing.

                          C. I personally don't see a distinction between the two.




                          Edited by - kungfoolss on September 01 2002 03:24:07
                          Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

                            Comment


                              #59
                              The defendant in Commonwealth v. Feijoo, 419 Mass. 486, 487, 489-490

                              (1995), a karate instructor, was indicted for rape and other sexual abuse of nine male students in a continual stream of incidents over a period of five years.(10) The defendant's misbehavior was virtually identical in all instances. He led the boys to believe he was a "Ninja," supreme in karate; held out to each boy the prospect of becoming his protege; pressured the boys to "succeed" by overcoming their deepest fears, breaking through a "condition" and choosing to become gay, and thereby engaging in sexual activity with him.

                              Upholding the joinder order, the court said, "[T]he evidence in its totality shows a common scheme and a pattern of operation that tends to prove all the indictments." Id. at 494-495.
                              Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Then you are not a martial artists?

                                McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?

                                Comment

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