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For the parents...advice needed

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    #16
    Ah, sounds like High School all over again.

    Your son just learned the most important lesson of a physical confrontation at school: Escalation.

    From the description of what happened, your son went overboard and retaliated as opposed to defending himself or getting away.

    That said, I would tell the other kids parents that their son started the fight by assaulting your son, and is now making threats to him at school and assembling a gang to seek retaliation against your son. I wouldn't even consider the option of assisting with dental bill until they put a curb on their own child's activities, as they constitute a felony in most places, while your son's actions where not a crime, or misdemeanor assault at most.

    And even then, no way I'm paying the whole bill, I'll split it with them, and if they don't like it, they can talk to my John Malcovich looking lawyer about my lawsuit for assualting my kid and the mental trauma that has resulted from it.
    Last edited by Peter H.; 11/04/2005 10:34am, .
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by strongbad
      Tell your kid to learn how to get along without hitting others.
      Most kids go through their entire lives without getting in fist fights.

      But if you must teach him how to defend himself enroll him in a wrestling or Judo program where he can learn a more nuanced response to aggression.
      My kid gets along with just about everyone. He is the shy type for the most part, but is always out to make friends. Straight A student, who gets reported by his teachers as always trying to help others in his class. The weird part of it is the kid who hit him used to be his best friend. They were both always at each other's house. This is his first "enemy" that he has ever had. Which is why he is so upset about it. The only reason why he struck at him was because the kid came at him first. As for the Judo, he does know some throws and locks that I have taught him (which are HKD and yudo based).
      Jeremy M. Talbott

      Originally posted by Phrost
      "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
      Originally posted by D.Murray
      "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
      Originally posted by hangooknamja88
      My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


      SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!

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        #18
        Originally posted by whitematt
        I like the idea of a mediator.

        Call his family and arrange a meeting - parents and kids.

        That would be the time and place for your son to apologize. Then discuss the rumors that are circulating. Make it known that you don't want anyone else to be hurt - your son, their son, or any friends that may get involved. Let them know you only have the boys' best interest at heart.

        I would suggest buying a round to descalate the situation, but you did say they were 11. Offer to take their son out for pizza, bowling, a movie... something. If they have a good time together this whole thing will likely just go away.
        So a bottle of JD and some beer chasers aren't the right setting? ha.ha.ha.ha..

        I may end up calling the kid's parents so we can all sit down to see what is going on between them. We are good acquaintances with them. Well at least before all of this started.
        Jeremy M. Talbott

        Originally posted by Phrost
        "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
        Originally posted by D.Murray
        "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
        Originally posted by hangooknamja88
        My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


        SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!

        Comment


          #19
          On a side note, it's nice to know that what my kid is studying at our school can actually work for him. ;)
          Jeremy M. Talbott

          Originally posted by Phrost
          "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
          Originally posted by D.Murray
          "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
          Originally posted by hangooknamja88
          My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


          SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!

          Comment


            #20
            My son is 3 1/2, so right now his scraps with other kids are pretty much limited to pushing, hair-pulling and sitting on each other. But I know I'm going to be dealing with more serious stuff one day.

            Here are a couple of thoughts that went through my mind -- I'm not saying you need to post answers here on the board, but you might want to think about them:

            * Why did the two boys have a falling-out in the first place? If there's some ongoing problem that can be "fixed," you might need to address that as part of this overall situation.

            * Why did your son deal out as much violence as he did? Was he just really scared? Does he have a grudge against the other boy? Does he have anger-control issues? Depending on the answer, you may have to choose different routes to help your son prevent future incidents.

            * Do you have any sense of how likely it is that your son will actually be jumped by a group of kids? If the other boy's parents are reasonable people (and they seem to be), there's less chance their son is a budding thug. Boys with wounded egos tend to talk tough, and kids love to spread rumors.

            * Did you have a previous friendship or acquaintance with the other boy's parents? It seems to me that keeping or establishing good rapport with them is crucial, because they (presumably) have some influence over their son.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Peter H.
              Ah, sounds like High School all over again.

              Your son just learned the most important lesson of a physical confrontation at school: Escalation.

              From the description of what happened, your son went overboard and retaliated as opposed to defending himself or getting away.

              That said, I would tell the other kids parents that their son started the fight by assaulting your son, and is now making threats to him at school and assembling a gang to seek retaliation against your son. I wouldn't even consider the option of assisting with dental bill until they put a curb on their own child's activities, as they constitute a felony in most places, while your son's actions where not a crime, or misdemeanor assault at most.

              And even then, no way I'm paying the whole bill, I'll split it with them, and if they don't like it, they can talk to my John Malcovich looking lawyer about my lawsuit for assualting my kid and the mental trauma that has resulted from it.
              I agree with all of this except the notion that he went overboard. We have no idea if that's true. Force escalation has to do with using the necessary level of force (and no more) to neutralize the threat. Having not been there, it's impossible to know whether the reaction was appropriate or not. If the details provided are accurate, I'd say that he quite likely reacted appropriately, but once again, it's impossible for any of us to make that call.

              From a legal perspective, as well as a philosophical one, I wholeheartedly agree with the comments regarding the dental bill. The other kid slapped/punched or otherwise attacked your son and your son defended himself. Why in the world would you pay for that kids dental bill? If the details you've provided are accurate, it would make no sense for you to contribute anything towards that bill.

              However, if you want to, as a gesture of good faith, offer to pay half of the bill, make damn good and sure that you make it perfectly clear that your paying a portion of that bill should in no way represent an admission of liability.

              Comment


                #22
                The only logical solution is a family royal rumble.

                Glass coated hand wraps like in bloodsport.

                Comment


                  #23
                  My grandpa always said "...never apologize if you are right." It is a good moto to live by.

                  Similar to what Lawdog said, it is difficult to determine if your son went overboard. He reacted to being attacked. Unless proven otherwise, he was the victim. In seventh grade, I got in a fight with one of my former friends. I blocked his punch and had the opportunity to knock him around, but I turned and walked away because I thought that was the right thing to do. So then I got slammed on my head. I think the outcome of your son's fight is much better than mine.








                  My grandpa also said "...never trust a man that doesn't drink." Although he was an alcoholic, it too is a good piece of advice.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    First post since Wilma.

                    Are some of you fuckers out of your mind?

                    This is the time to instill the killer instinct in your children.

                    I live by better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. My children know this and I have drilled it into them since they were 4 and were bullied and attcked by kids their age.

                    I guess some of you are white, or fit right in. For those of us who are different, it's a whole another story. We get picked on because of race, size, weight, whatever. You do not back down from this, at any age.

                    Hit first, hit hard, and run fast. My children do not live in fear. In fact, my son has walked away from more fights than he's been in. Having a twin sister who is just as good in BJJ as he is helps even out the situation.

                    My advice, do not teach your child to fear what he is capable of, or fear being himself.

                    "There exists a law, not written down anywhere but inborn in our heart; a law that comes to us not by training or custom or reading but from nature itself, if our lives are endangered, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right."
                    -Roman Orator Cicero
                    Originally posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
                    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Anthony
                      First post since Wilma.

                      Are some of you fuckers out of your mind?

                      This is the time to instill the killer instinct in your children.

                      I live by better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. My children know this and I have drilled it into them since they were 4 and were bullied and attcked by kids their age.

                      I guess some of you are white, or fit right in. For those of us who are different, it's a whole another story. We get picked on because of race, size, weight, whatever. You do not back down from this, at any age.

                      Hit first, hit hard, and run fast. My children do not live in fear. In fact, my son has walked away from more fights than he's been in. Having a twin sister who is just as good in BJJ as he is helps even out the situation.

                      My advice, do not teach your child to fear what he is capable of, or fear being himself.

                      "There exists a law, not written down anywhere but inborn in our heart; a law that comes to us not by training or custom or reading but from nature itself, if our lives are endangered, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right."
                      -Roman Orator Cicero
                      Allow me to quote Mr. G. Gordon Liddy, who, had a similar philosophy, which I agree with whole-heartedly:
                      There are no rules. There can be no restraint. Kill them or they kill you. This mindset is revealed neatly in the advice he gave to his children from the time they were toddlers. He told them to start fights or they would be beaten. When the kids' school explained that they had a strict non-violence policy, Liddy replied, "In the late 1930s French children were taught that philosophy while German kids were taught to be fierce in battle. Given the destruction of the numerically superior French armies by the Wehrmacht in about thirty days, I prefer the German approach. The school will just have to live with it."
                      “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Hmmm...

                        Interesting situation.

                        If your kid believes he went overboard with his "self defence" than, he should apologise for THAT and nothing else.
                        "Hey man, sorry I went VanDamme on your ass, and particular reason why you slapped me?"


                        How the other kid reacts will then dictate what happens next.

                        Now, if the other kids is already planning a beatdown, well chances are nothing thats gonna be said will change that, but he has to try.
                        If they gang up on him, well, all he can do is fight back or run, the choice is his.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Dude
                          Wow, good luck
                          Did your son overreact because of the build up of tension, having to deal with this bull shit over weeks of time.

                          I don't know about apaologizing or paying. Make it clear that if that kid keeps his hands to himself this shit won't happen.

                          In a different setting I'd tell your boy to go to the other boys friends on a one to one basis. Make friends, undermine his support/cheering section, plus make the other kids see him as a human being-not some brainic wonderkid (can you tell that I was not part of that smart clique in HS??)

                          My 2 cents

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Anthony
                            I guess some of you are white, or fit right in. For those of us who are different, it's a whole another story. We get picked on because of race, size, weight, whatever. You do not back down from this, at any age.
                            Though it wasn't the cause of this particular incident, my kid is mixed Korean/White. Sooner or later we will have to deal with that issue amongst the ignorant.

                            Originally posted by Anthony
                            My advice, do not teach your child to fear what he is capable of, or fear being himself.
                            I don't teach him to be afraid of hurting someone. I do try to instill a sense of caution in how he uses what he knows. I am being the biased father for now in saying I feel that whatever my kid did to defend himself was just. Why? Because I know him enough to know that he would never strike another person unless he felt there was no other way out of it. I teach my kids to be themselves and be true to themselves above all else. Not everyone will like them, but as long as they know they are good people, then who gives a rat's ass about the others. I teach them to be proud of both of their Korean and Americna heritage so that is never a problem.

                            BTW...racism affects everyone. Granted I don't get it as much as a minority, but I still get the comments and looks from the Koreans and other Asians when we are out together.
                            Jeremy M. Talbott

                            Originally posted by Phrost
                            "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
                            Originally posted by D.Murray
                            "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
                            Originally posted by hangooknamja88
                            My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


                            SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Well it is past lunch time and I did not receive a call from the school replying to my initial message about the incident at hand. Then again, I didn't get the "Mr. Talbott you son is being suspended for beating up the 5th grade either". So I guess nothing happened as of today.
                              Jeremy M. Talbott

                              Originally posted by Phrost
                              "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
                              Originally posted by D.Murray
                              "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
                              Originally posted by hangooknamja88
                              My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


                              SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Anthony
                                First post since Wilma.

                                Are some of you fuckers out of your mind?

                                This is the time to instill the killer instinct in your children.

                                I live by better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. My children know this and I have drilled it into them since they were 4 and were bullied and attcked by kids their age.

                                I guess some of you are white, or fit right in. For those of us who are different, it's a whole another story. We get picked on because of race, size, weight, whatever. You do not back down from this, at any age.

                                Hit first, hit hard, and run fast. My children do not live in fear. In fact, my son has walked away from more fights than he's been in. Having a twin sister who is just as good in BJJ as he is helps even out the situation.

                                My advice, do not teach your child to fear what he is capable of, or fear being himself.

                                "There exists a law, not written down anywhere but inborn in our heart; a law that comes to us not by training or custom or reading but from nature itself, if our lives are endangered, any and every method of protecting ourselves is morally right."
                                -Roman Orator Cicero

                                It's school yard scrap, not a freaking gang war Anthony. There is a concept of appropriate response. No one is saying he should have backed down, he was attacked, and he struck back, my opinion is, from the description of the incident here, a slap to the face did not warrant the pummelling delivered.

                                No, his son deals with the escalation. When I was in high school I got picked on because I was short, pudgy, unathletic, wore glasses, and had a mullet and a drawl, mixed with being the same asshole I am now. Guy decided that name calling was enough and pushed me. I kicked him square in the balls. Since I would fight back against one, not long later, I had to face three. I didn't win, I didn't know shit about fighting then, but I fought back. So they got more. Kept going until the fight spilled over into the parking lot of the gym across the street from the school, I think there were 5 or six guys v me that time. I got my ass pummeled on a regular basis.

                                It was years later that I was attacked again. A pissed off used car salesman at the car lot I worked at. By then, I had some training under my belt, I was in a hell of a lot better shape thanks to puberty, karate, and track, and I easily could has schooled this guy on the various methods of pummelage, and I would be within my right since he attacked me first. But it wasn't worth it, since I had to comeback to work the next day at this same car lot and would deal with the reprocussions of my actions. So I grabbed the guy and slammed him against a truck and pinned him there until he realized the stupidity of what he did.

                                That's what is happening here, Migu has got to end it before it hits that next fight. And his son has probably learned a valuable lesson in that it is better to walk away and if you are going to fight, don't take it too far.
                                "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
                                -My three year old trash talking to me

                                "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
                                -The Honky Tonk Man

                                "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
                                -My Father to me one day

                                "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
                                -Don Gwinn

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