Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New Hapkido style knife techniques

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Peter H.
    replied
    Originally posted by Arahoushi
    Hey San Ang! Out from my old area!

    The second defense looks a lot like a technique from the Takagi yoshin ryu called kote gaeshi (wrist drop). I like kote gaeshi quite a bit. I've found that as far as arm locks go, it's pretty good so long as one can control the takedown. The danger I've found in sparring is that sometimes my sparring partner switches knife hands on me during such an exchange.

    The first attack is much better than the hapkido one in the original post, because you move your body to defend instead of trusting the strikes to take them down.
    Aikido Kote Gaeshi usually is executed lower, near the one point. I also try to take control of the knife ASAP, so I know where it is.

    I aint punchy - I usually take a cut or two on the arm before I get the knife, unless I get lucky or can get feint the guy into over extending. I would put video up, but my phone only does 10 seconds at a time.

    Leave a comment:


  • I aint punchy!?
    replied
    Peter H, now show you doing that in a situation where you give him a (fake) knife and you dont have one and its sparring... he just trying to freestyle slash or stab you, and isnt afraid to use his body to force you into the knife, and doesnt do silly things like kick or punch, he stays behind the knife.
    And this gets to the problem of all knife defenses...

    Imagine a knife-fighter who does a few simple things - has his arms up, has knife in his right hand and its pointed at you, he is in a boxing-like stance. His basic strategy is NOT to stand there stupidly, or to do a single lunging thrust. His strategy is to slash his way through any arm you point at him, stab any kick you do at him, and keep theknife pointed at your face. Any opening you present will be exploited, in particular arms slashed, and if you have a big opening, a slash across the face or chest.

    Damn hard to counter.

    If people are interested I'll give a few suggestions.
    Last edited by I aint punchy!?; 7/29/2005 5:24am, .

    Leave a comment:


  • BackFistMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by mmabuster
    backfistmonkey

    you are going to love ths guy.
    He goes to the States to teach your countrymen military personnel on how to apply HapKido CQC.

    no luck for me that he don't come to my country

    he will show you how his CQC will work

    Who dares to question an 8 dan Hapkido master with military personnels teaching career ? Member of prestiguous military associations ...etc.

    look at his website and guess what he will be on your shores on the following dates

    "HapKiDo SungMooKwan and Military CQC Tour 2005

    Grand Master (GM) Julian Lim (8th Dan HapKiDo, 8th Dan TaeKwonDo) will be conducting a series of special HapKiDo/ Military Close-Quarters-Combat seminars in the United States, the United Kingdom and Spain this August and September 2005.

    The US leg dates and locations are as follows: Apex, NC on August 13th; Chicago, IL on the 16th and 17th of August; Auburn, AL on the 20th of August; and Ft Benning, GA on the 22nd August. For further information on the U.S. leg, please contact Patrick Baeder at [email protected]

    One of three things are going on

    A:: I am way to critical and making a snap judgement based on their website and training tips and general info they give on their website
    B:: They are secretly a band of UBER Badass Martial Artists who pretend to suck by releasing the worst possible info on their website in order to control the distribution of their uber effective submission skills , striking skills , foot work skills , and knife disarm skills .
    C:: Someone higher up the chain of command has friends in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

    I would be more worried but I was enlightend by another thread to the fact that Hand 2 Hand combat in the armed forces is more of a moral booster than any actual focused long term training .

    Leave a comment:


  • Lane
    replied
    Originally posted by Peter H.
    I apologize for the low quality, these were taken today with my camera phone. We are moving at half speed and the frame rate still sucks, but you get the general idea of what is happening:

    http://www.gobbosworld.com/knife1.3gp

    Elias has the knife. I start with the same situation as the first video. I even open the same way, a groin strike, but as I execute it, I turn, grabbing his knife hand and pushing it towards his body. Elias reacts by trying to step back and regain control of the knife. I follow through and into Sankyu (Arm Lock), during the lock, Elias loses his grip on the knife and it hits the ground. Elais taps and I see no point in taking him down, I would normally finish with a takedown and into a sub, but we were both tired, it was the end of practice.

    http://www.gobbosworld.com/knife2.3gp

    Tanner has the knife, and is attempting to stab. We started from the same position as video one, but this time, I am actively being attacked, instead of having a knife weilder just standing next to me. As Tanner moves towards me, I step infront, again grabbing the knife hand at the wrist. Tanner pulls, I guide it up and over into a Shihonage and then into a modified keyhole, take him down and tap him with the lock.

    Still not perfect, but a sight better than the vidoes we saw above.

    Edit: Just to note, these were not choreographed. I told my guys the start position. That was it. Once we started they tried to stab me. We moved at half speed and moderate resistance. No practice, no takes, that was first try on both of those, and after those two I didn't feel like doing anymore.

    I fixed the links. I forget that my computer is so used to me that I can ignore things like www and .com and it knows what I mean anyway.
    Hey San Ang! Out from my old area!

    The second defense looks a lot like a technique from the Takagi yoshin ryu called kote gaeshi (wrist drop). I like kote gaeshi quite a bit. I've found that as far as arm locks go, it's pretty good so long as one can control the takedown. The danger I've found in sparring is that sometimes my sparring partner switches knife hands on me during such an exchange.

    The first attack is much better than the hapkido one in the original post, because you move your body to defend instead of trusting the strikes to take them down.

    As an interesting tangent, tonight I suggested we do some mutou dori (unarmed defense against the sword) because of this thread. I got to work with one of our shodan students tonight, and he gave me the best workout I've had in a while. The method I found that worked the best was to get behind him because it's much harder to stab behind. If I tried to control his sword I ended up getting cut, but if I used my taisabaki to keep within difficult areas for him to strike eventually he'd end up in a position where I could either take his sword away or take him down.

    Leave a comment:


  • mmabuster
    replied
    master julian lim in US

    backfistmonkey

    you are going to love ths guy.
    He goes to the States to teach your countrymen military personnel on how to apply HapKido CQC.

    no luck for me that he don't come to my country

    he will show you how his CQC will work

    Who dares to question an 8 dan Hapkido master with military personnels teaching career ? Member of prestiguous military associations ...etc.

    look at his website and guess what he will be on your shores on the following dates

    "HapKiDo SungMooKwan and Military CQC Tour 2005

    Grand Master (GM) Julian Lim (8th Dan HapKiDo, 8th Dan TaeKwonDo) will be conducting a series of special HapKiDo/ Military Close-Quarters-Combat seminars in the United States, the United Kingdom and Spain this August and September 2005.

    The US leg dates and locations are as follows: Apex, NC on August 13th; Chicago, IL on the 16th and 17th of August; Auburn, AL on the 20th of August; and Ft Benning, GA on the 22nd August. For further information on the U.S. leg, please contact Patrick Baeder at [email protected]

    Leave a comment:


  • BackFistMonkey
    replied
    http://www.jlim.net/

    ok I have no clue what the hell this is but it appears to be scat play

    click on :

    Julian Lim Kkorean Martial Arts

    go to on the right side of main page

    JULY 2005
    HAND DRILLS (3/3)
    - 2 AND 1 COUNTS
    B)1 count

    3. OR shit back first to Right, extend
    Right hand punch
    I just dont like these guys .. call me critical ...

    Leave a comment:


  • BackFistMonkey
    replied
    Originally posted by Peter H.
    I apologize for the low quality, these were taken today with my camera phone. We are moving at half speed and the frame rate still sucks, but you get the general idea of what is happening:

    www.gobbosworld/knife1.3gp

    Elias has the knife. I start with the same situation as the first video. I even open the same way, a groin strike, but as I execute it, I turn, grabbing his knife hand and pushing it towards his body. Elias reacts by trying to step back and regain control of the knife. I follow through and into Sankyu (Arm Lock), during the lock, Elias loses his grip on the knife and it hits the ground. Elais taps and I see no point in taking him down, I would normally finish with a takedown and into a sub, but we were both tired, it was the end of practice.

    www.gobbosworld/knife2.3gp

    Tanner has the knife, and is attempting to stab. We started from the same position as video one, but this time, I am actively being attacked, instead of having a knife weilder just standing next to me. As Tanner moves towards me, I step infront, again grabbing the knife hand at the wrist. Tanner pulls, I guide it up and over into a Shihonage and then into a modified keyhole, take him down and tap him with the lock.

    Still not perfect, but a sight better than the vidoes we saw above.

    Edit: Just to note, these were not choreographed. I told my guys the start position. That was it. Once we started they tried to stab me. We moved at half speed and moderate resistance. No practice, no takes, that was first try on both of those, and after those two I didn't feel like doing anymore.
    in the first clip Elias looks mighty pissed off when your done ......

    your still reaching for the knife hand ... I DONT LIKE THAT !!! , but hey what the hell its a demo , besides that these two clips are nice as far as " knife defences" go and they actually look more like Hapkido :hitit: than the first Hapkido clip
    Last edited by BackFistMonkey; 7/28/2005 11:46am, . Reason: to little sleep to many distractions

    Leave a comment:


  • Peter H.
    replied
    Video

    Originally posted by Arahoushi
    Not to mention that a good knife fighter will take a blow to the nose if he gets to stab you in the throat.

    In unarmed defense against a knife, you're absolutely right. You HAVE to gain control of the knife somehow or you are going to die.
    I apologize for the low quality, these were taken today with my camera phone. We are moving at half speed and the frame rate still sucks, but you get the general idea of what is happening:

    http://www.gobbosworld.com/knife1.3gp

    Elias has the knife. I start with the same situation as the first video. I even open the same way, a groin strike, but as I execute it, I turn, grabbing his knife hand and pushing it towards his body. Elias reacts by trying to step back and regain control of the knife. I follow through and into Sankyu (Arm Lock), during the lock, Elias loses his grip on the knife and it hits the ground. Elais taps and I see no point in taking him down, I would normally finish with a takedown and into a sub, but we were both tired, it was the end of practice.

    http://www.gobbosworld.com/knife2.3gp

    Tanner has the knife, and is attempting to stab. We started from the same position as video one, but this time, I am actively being attacked, instead of having a knife weilder just standing next to me. As Tanner moves towards me, I step infront, again grabbing the knife hand at the wrist. Tanner pulls, I guide it up and over into a Shihonage and then into a modified keyhole, take him down and tap him with the lock.

    Still not perfect, but a sight better than the vidoes we saw above.

    Edit: Just to note, these were not choreographed. I told my guys the start position. That was it. Once we started they tried to stab me. We moved at half speed and moderate resistance. No practice, no takes, that was first try on both of those, and after those two I didn't feel like doing anymore.

    I fixed the links. I forget that my computer is so used to me that I can ignore things like www and .com and it knows what I mean anyway.
    Last edited by Peter H.; 7/28/2005 8:27am, .

    Leave a comment:


  • Lane
    replied
    Originally posted by Peter H.
    That's one way. At that distance, once you move the knife will be approaching you, either because you moved towards it, or the guy with it is going to try to stab you. With the way he's holding it, I would pin the knife against the guys own body, ude osai would do it, or just grab his wrist and apply pressure back towards him. From there is what happens next depends on how he moves. Depending on his level of attention and what you know how to do there are other options, but playing slap and tickle with the knife weilding assailant is about the last one I would want to do.
    Not to mention that a good knife fighter will take a blow to the nose if he gets to stab you in the throat.

    In unarmed defense against a knife, you're absolutely right. You HAVE to gain control of the knife somehow or you are going to die.

    Leave a comment:


  • OZZ
    replied
    The second technique was O.K. I suppose..the first one was a joke.

    Leave a comment:


  • sanguine
    replied
    Originally posted by SYB
    Stuff like this gives hapkido a bad name.

    FYI, those main korean HKD associations you mentioned have pretty much turned to bullshit by now. It's just a bunch of political nonesense and virtually all the original guys who really know HKD and a lot of the original charter writers have left them because they were sick of the BS.
    Yup. My old dojang even gave up on the HKD name, apparently (after I left). Of course, I don't know if the new name (Yongmudo) and associated connection with Yongin University is worth anything and will add or remove BS.

    I've learned that my HKD experience was sort of an MMA experience, inasmuch as there was extensive crosstraining in the membership -- and it was encouraged. As a result, my grappling included elements of traditional jiu jitsu and BJJ, my roundhouses are from MT, etc, etc. I think this fits the ethos of traditional HKD better. Our program head used to take his students and make them go to all kinds of tournaments, as well as holding internal tournaments between the various martial arts (there's nothing quite like getting to do free sparring with throws and ground fighting allowed against someone who's only trained competition TKD...).

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronin
    replied
    Its what I use to evaluate anything I see in the MA.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt Bernius
    replied
    Originally posted by BatRonin
    When evaluating ANY technique you must put yourself in the role of the attacker.

    Doing that, do you see anyway those techniques would work?

    NO.
    Wow... great evaluation point. I've never heard it put that way. Thanks for the keeper!

    - Matt

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronin
    replied
    When evaluating ANY technique you must put yourself in the role of the attacker.

    Doing that, do you see anyway those techniques would work?

    NO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Matt Bernius
    replied
    Originally posted by mmabuster
    Matt bernius=why you say 2 strikes will not work ? is it not wan yi yi chuan strikes powerful? Surely your strikes can impact to follow up with such technique ?
    The strikes might work. The first issue that I have is that the knife wielder is standing still and not trying to stab or slash. But let's leave that aside for a sec. The nose stike would most likley pop the head back and start the guys hands to his face (if it hit correctly) which means the knife position changes. Then blow to the groin would most likely extend the persons arms outward, which means then your turning into a knife that you have no control over. That's just bad. More so, there's no reason to go to the guy's hot side. I'd turn toward the holding hand and take yourself out of the range of the knife and punch the guy to guam, assuming that the striking/body positioning will prevent the knife from reentering combat/if not disarm him all together.

    But getting to the bigger issue, if the first technique (the nose blow) fails, the defender has done nothing to get off of the weapon line, which means:

    Mr Knife meet Mr Kidney

    Even with the nose blow, a commited thrust would probably still penetrate on some level, which then totally changes the technique position and makes the swing/turn your back rotation to get to the knife more difficult.

    It's really a bad technique that counts on a totally nonresisting attacker.

    How I would handle that situation. Raise right arm and roll/turn to the right side (grabbing side). Get as close the their side as possible. If able I'd secure the knife elbow against thier body with my left hand (and probably my right as well). I'd start punishing their legs, and most likely bite off thier ear (because this is now life and death as far as I'm concerned). At this point, depending on where they are, I'd either try and run, or free up one hand and begin to elbow the hell out of their face.

    It ain't pretty, but it's an honest answer.

    - Matt

    - Matt
    Last edited by Matt Bernius; 7/27/2005 8:32am, .

    Leave a comment:

Collapse

Edit this module to specify a template to display.

Working...
X