Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New Hapkido style knife techniques

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    hap ki do principles

    years back did Hap Ki Do understood all techniques follow core HKD principles (Circle, Water, Sum)

    If i still do hapkido now the water & circle principle will be first

    E.g technique 1 using the water principle(not wasting time and energy going against the hold), flow around it with Won (Circle) thus breaking hold.

    One drop of water inflict no pain but a torrent and doing so using Heo principle (attacker weakness/blindside)

    E.g focus many punches at same spot while standing at blindside is enough.

    Sum principle covers won, gak & bang.

    E.g the theory of Gak(triangle) and maintaing Bang(Square) could use the attacker as shield between his knife and myself.

    In clip does any Hapkidoin see applied principle or not ?

    today using BJJ either jab take down working around to armbar or figure 4 knife hand. Always keep knife hand away.

    Perhaps using Chris Haueter approach would be better for those in the know

    senshi, how will ray floro do then ??? your 10 cents now

    Reference principle of HeoSil (Heo = Emptiness/Weakness/BlindSpot, Sil = Fulness/Meritness/Strongness)
    Principle of Won = opponent don't move, one don't move

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by BackFistMonkey
      Yes we do stupid drills like the first video in my classes . But then my instructor makes a point to spend 15-20 minutes cutting stabbing and slashing us ( wooden knives and training blades ) to show that they dont work 80 % of the time and to give us time to figure out what does work . ( I have never seen the first technique though ...)
      My favorite "knives will kill you" drill from my old HKD dojang was much like that, but with big, fat markers and old t-shirts. I think it really brings it home to do the technique and, even if you didn't notice the contact, realize that your forearms and body are all marked up.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by mmabuster
        years back did Hap Ki Do understood all techniques follow core HKD principles (Circle, Water, Sum)

        If i still do hapkido now the water & circle principle will be first

        E.g technique 1 using the water principle(not wasting time and energy going against the hold), flow around it with Won (Circle) thus breaking hold.

        One drop of water inflict no pain but a torrent and doing so using Heo principle (attacker weakness/blindside)

        E.g focus many punches at same spot while standing at blindside is enough.

        Sum principle covers won, gak & bang.

        E.g the theory of Gak(triangle) and maintaing Bang(Square) could use the attacker as shield between his knife and myself.

        In clip does any Hapkidoin see applied principle or not ?

        today using BJJ either jab take down working around to armbar or figure 4 knife hand. Always keep knife hand away.

        Perhaps using Chris Haueter approach would be better for those in the know

        senshi, how will ray floro do then ??? your 10 cents now

        Reference principle of HeoSil (Heo = Emptiness/Weakness/BlindSpot, Sil = Fulness/Meritness/Strongness)
        Principle of Won = opponent don't move, one don't move
        English. Learn it.

        Comment


          #34
          blah blah blah rankings, blah blah blah associations and organizations. All this doesn't matter. What matters is what you can do on (and off) the mat. What is shown in those videos will more than likely get you killed. There was pretty much nothing. Even take away the knife and the technique still had nothing (first video). The guy demonstrating had no balance, no intent, was not using his weight properly, was not defending himself, etc.. etc.. This looks like something somebody with no MA experience at all would try after watching a few movies.

          Stuff like this gives hapkido a bad name.

          FYI, those main korean HKD associations you mentioned have pretty much turned to bullshit by now. It's just a bunch of political nonesense and virtually all the original guys who really know HKD and a lot of the original charter writers have left them because they were sick of the BS.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Matt Phillips
            Bullshido is not like the police department, or even POWNET; it really just gets random hard ons and then follows it's dick.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by mmabuster

              Peter H. says Control the knife as soon as you can.
              so for Technique 1, u jump straight into grabbing his knife hand ?
              That's one way. At that distance, once you move the knife will be approaching you, either because you moved towards it, or the guy with it is going to try to stab you. With the way he's holding it, I would pin the knife against the guys own body, ude osai would do it, or just grab his wrist and apply pressure back towards him. From there is what happens next depends on how he moves. Depending on his level of attention and what you know how to do there are other options, but playing slap and tickle with the knife weilding assailant is about the last one I would want to do.
              "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
              -My three year old trash talking to me

              "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
              -The Honky Tonk Man

              "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
              -My Father to me one day

              "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
              -Don Gwinn

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by mmabuster
                Matt bernius=why you say 2 strikes will not work ? is it not wan yi yi chuan strikes powerful? Surely your strikes can impact to follow up with such technique ?
                The strikes might work. The first issue that I have is that the knife wielder is standing still and not trying to stab or slash. But let's leave that aside for a sec. The nose stike would most likley pop the head back and start the guys hands to his face (if it hit correctly) which means the knife position changes. Then blow to the groin would most likely extend the persons arms outward, which means then your turning into a knife that you have no control over. That's just bad. More so, there's no reason to go to the guy's hot side. I'd turn toward the holding hand and take yourself out of the range of the knife and punch the guy to guam, assuming that the striking/body positioning will prevent the knife from reentering combat/if not disarm him all together.

                But getting to the bigger issue, if the first technique (the nose blow) fails, the defender has done nothing to get off of the weapon line, which means:

                Mr Knife meet Mr Kidney

                Even with the nose blow, a commited thrust would probably still penetrate on some level, which then totally changes the technique position and makes the swing/turn your back rotation to get to the knife more difficult.

                It's really a bad technique that counts on a totally nonresisting attacker.

                How I would handle that situation. Raise right arm and roll/turn to the right side (grabbing side). Get as close the their side as possible. If able I'd secure the knife elbow against thier body with my left hand (and probably my right as well). I'd start punishing their legs, and most likely bite off thier ear (because this is now life and death as far as I'm concerned). At this point, depending on where they are, I'd either try and run, or free up one hand and begin to elbow the hell out of their face.

                It ain't pretty, but it's an honest answer.

                - Matt

                - Matt
                Last edited by Matt Bernius; 7/27/2005 8:32am, .
                Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
                Kali, & what ever works
                Renaissance Martial Arts
                Rochester, NY

                Comment


                  #38
                  When evaluating ANY technique you must put yourself in the role of the attacker.

                  Doing that, do you see anyway those techniques would work?

                  NO.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by BatRonin
                    When evaluating ANY technique you must put yourself in the role of the attacker.

                    Doing that, do you see anyway those techniques would work?

                    NO.
                    Wow... great evaluation point. I've never heard it put that way. Thanks for the keeper!

                    - Matt
                    Student of Wan Yi Chuan Kung Fu,
                    Kali, & what ever works
                    Renaissance Martial Arts
                    Rochester, NY

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Its what I use to evaluate anything I see in the MA.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by SYB
                        Stuff like this gives hapkido a bad name.

                        FYI, those main korean HKD associations you mentioned have pretty much turned to bullshit by now. It's just a bunch of political nonesense and virtually all the original guys who really know HKD and a lot of the original charter writers have left them because they were sick of the BS.
                        Yup. My old dojang even gave up on the HKD name, apparently (after I left). Of course, I don't know if the new name (Yongmudo) and associated connection with Yongin University is worth anything and will add or remove BS.

                        I've learned that my HKD experience was sort of an MMA experience, inasmuch as there was extensive crosstraining in the membership -- and it was encouraged. As a result, my grappling included elements of traditional jiu jitsu and BJJ, my roundhouses are from MT, etc, etc. I think this fits the ethos of traditional HKD better. Our program head used to take his students and make them go to all kinds of tournaments, as well as holding internal tournaments between the various martial arts (there's nothing quite like getting to do free sparring with throws and ground fighting allowed against someone who's only trained competition TKD...).

                        Comment


                          #42
                          The second technique was O.K. I suppose..the first one was a joke.
                          " If one wants to have a friend one must also want to wage war for him: and to wage war one must be capable of being an enemy." - Fr. Nietzsche 'On The Friend' Thus Spake Zarathustra

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Peter H.
                            That's one way. At that distance, once you move the knife will be approaching you, either because you moved towards it, or the guy with it is going to try to stab you. With the way he's holding it, I would pin the knife against the guys own body, ude osai would do it, or just grab his wrist and apply pressure back towards him. From there is what happens next depends on how he moves. Depending on his level of attention and what you know how to do there are other options, but playing slap and tickle with the knife weilding assailant is about the last one I would want to do.
                            Not to mention that a good knife fighter will take a blow to the nose if he gets to stab you in the throat.

                            In unarmed defense against a knife, you're absolutely right. You HAVE to gain control of the knife somehow or you are going to die.
                            --
                            L.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Video

                              Originally posted by Arahoushi
                              Not to mention that a good knife fighter will take a blow to the nose if he gets to stab you in the throat.

                              In unarmed defense against a knife, you're absolutely right. You HAVE to gain control of the knife somehow or you are going to die.
                              I apologize for the low quality, these were taken today with my camera phone. We are moving at half speed and the frame rate still sucks, but you get the general idea of what is happening:

                              http://www.gobbosworld.com/knife1.3gp

                              Elias has the knife. I start with the same situation as the first video. I even open the same way, a groin strike, but as I execute it, I turn, grabbing his knife hand and pushing it towards his body. Elias reacts by trying to step back and regain control of the knife. I follow through and into Sankyu (Arm Lock), during the lock, Elias loses his grip on the knife and it hits the ground. Elais taps and I see no point in taking him down, I would normally finish with a takedown and into a sub, but we were both tired, it was the end of practice.

                              http://www.gobbosworld.com/knife2.3gp

                              Tanner has the knife, and is attempting to stab. We started from the same position as video one, but this time, I am actively being attacked, instead of having a knife weilder just standing next to me. As Tanner moves towards me, I step infront, again grabbing the knife hand at the wrist. Tanner pulls, I guide it up and over into a Shihonage and then into a modified keyhole, take him down and tap him with the lock.

                              Still not perfect, but a sight better than the vidoes we saw above.

                              Edit: Just to note, these were not choreographed. I told my guys the start position. That was it. Once we started they tried to stab me. We moved at half speed and moderate resistance. No practice, no takes, that was first try on both of those, and after those two I didn't feel like doing anymore.

                              I fixed the links. I forget that my computer is so used to me that I can ignore things like www and .com and it knows what I mean anyway.
                              Last edited by Peter H.; 7/28/2005 8:27am, .
                              "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
                              -My three year old trash talking to me

                              "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
                              -The Honky Tonk Man

                              "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
                              -My Father to me one day

                              "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
                              -Don Gwinn

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Peter H.
                                I apologize for the low quality, these were taken today with my camera phone. We are moving at half speed and the frame rate still sucks, but you get the general idea of what is happening:

                                www.gobbosworld/knife1.3gp

                                Elias has the knife. I start with the same situation as the first video. I even open the same way, a groin strike, but as I execute it, I turn, grabbing his knife hand and pushing it towards his body. Elias reacts by trying to step back and regain control of the knife. I follow through and into Sankyu (Arm Lock), during the lock, Elias loses his grip on the knife and it hits the ground. Elais taps and I see no point in taking him down, I would normally finish with a takedown and into a sub, but we were both tired, it was the end of practice.

                                www.gobbosworld/knife2.3gp

                                Tanner has the knife, and is attempting to stab. We started from the same position as video one, but this time, I am actively being attacked, instead of having a knife weilder just standing next to me. As Tanner moves towards me, I step infront, again grabbing the knife hand at the wrist. Tanner pulls, I guide it up and over into a Shihonage and then into a modified keyhole, take him down and tap him with the lock.

                                Still not perfect, but a sight better than the vidoes we saw above.

                                Edit: Just to note, these were not choreographed. I told my guys the start position. That was it. Once we started they tried to stab me. We moved at half speed and moderate resistance. No practice, no takes, that was first try on both of those, and after those two I didn't feel like doing anymore.
                                in the first clip Elias looks mighty pissed off when your done ......

                                your still reaching for the knife hand ... I DONT LIKE THAT !!! , but hey what the hell its a demo , besides that these two clips are nice as far as " knife defences" go and they actually look more like Hapkido :hitit: than the first Hapkido clip
                                Last edited by BackFistMonkey; 7/28/2005 11:46am, . Reason: to little sleep to many distractions

                                Comment

                                Collapse

                                Edit this module to specify a template to display.

                                Working...
                                X