Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

New!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Wheels
    replied
    That's really strange, cause Shawn Liu has untold documented fights under his belt using kung fu successfully, or are we only to count UFC results?

    My kung fu seems to work just fine against other styles, and no, it does not incorporate ground techniques, but I've learned enough to get me off the ground.

    In any case, ninety per cent of my art takes place at clinch range, so getting me on the ground, while possible, is not as easy as it sounds, and will involve taking some heinous damage along the way, and the risk of being thrown, as that is why my art is predominantly at clinch range, so that I can throw the opponent.

    Do I follow them to the ground? Not unless I feel I've got an edge there due to size and experience(6'3" 220 lbs.).

    So, peedee shaolin, care to elaborate on what kung fu systems you've even sparred against practitioners of, or would that interfere with your ability to hyperbolize?

    I will share. Sparred against a Bagua practitioner of 3.5 years. In front of my judo club. (Used their mats) Put him in the plum and threw ONE knee. When he lost his wind I let him go and sat on top of him. Just sat there until he recovered and let him up. That was all he needed. Now he is a blue belt in BJJ and one of my best friends.

    KungFudoeswork- Seen Gracie in Action??? What is your take on all of those Kung fu practitioners style????? Why was the result the SAME in EVERY situation. Please tell me where I can get a Kung Fu in action tape which showcases Kung Fu against other styles in open challenge. didnt think so.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    That's really strange, cause Shawn Liu has untold documented fights under his belt using kung fu successfully, or are we only to count UFC results?

    My kung fu seems to work just fine against other styles, and no, it does not incorporate ground techniques, but I've learned enough to get me off the ground.

    In any case, ninety per cent of my art takes place at clinch range, so getting me on the ground, while possible, is not as easy as it sounds, and will involve taking some heinous damage along the way, and the risk of being thrown, as that is why my art is predominantly at clinch range, so that I can throw the opponent.

    Do I follow them to the ground? Not unless I feel I've got an edge there due to size and experience(6'3" 220 lbs.).

    So, peedee shaolin, care to elaborate on what kung fu systems you've even sparred against practitioners of, or would that interfere with your ability to hyperbolize?

    Leave a comment:


  • SifuAbel
    replied
    "I will say against someone who knows nothing it
    may (may) give you an advantage."

    You mean like you and 95% of the people on this board? thats enough for me, I don't have to fight the absolute best. I just have to fight punks like you, big deal. You guys don't have a clue about kung fu. If anybody is fixated on the movies and what goes on TV its you guys.

    McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?

    Leave a comment:


  • Streetfighter
    replied
    PeeDee has good opinions on many things, but he seems to have a raw spot on him about trad. MA. He probably got beat by a BJJ white belt after training for years in another art, which does happen often.

    Leave a comment:


  • SifuAbel
    replied
    PDS is full of shit. nuff said.

    McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?

    Leave a comment:


  • Streetfighter
    replied
    PeeDee,

    Have you ever trained KF?

    I would say that no style is totally useless. I took Karate for a short time when I was younger and it did teach me how to throw a punch and a kick, even though I did not like the Kata BS, that they spent valuable training time on, and stopped, I still came out of it with the ability to protect myself with my fists.

    Leave a comment:


  • Streetfighter
    replied
    The one that trains to fight that style will probably win. In a fight with no rules the person who trains to fight without rules wins. It's simple. A pro boxer would beat a UFC fighter in boxing and a UFC fighter would beat a pro boxer in the UFC.

    Take it to a situation in a fight on the street and the UFC fighter would beat the pro boxer in most situations, but not all.

    Leave a comment:


  • PeedeeShaolin
    replied
    I'll give you guys a little help here:

    Kung Fu is the WORST offender in the dept of UNWORKABLE techniques built around a FLAWED SYSTEM.

    Almost NOTHING in ANY style of Kung Fu has EVER been proven.

    ANYWHERE.

    The very BEST example of Kung Fu is the 'Boxers Rebellion' where these misguided FOOLS thought theor 'Chi' would protect them from bullets.

    They were all killed.

    Guys like KFDW want desperatley to beliebe that real fights look like Dragonball Z and that SOMEWHERE theres a MASTER who can put everyone to shame in seconds.

    Sorry cuz, its not happeneing. You will never mee this master or even see him do what you wish he could. He doesnt exist.

    You had your chance when Emin Boztepe attacked William Cheung like a common thug and despite Cheungs COUNTLESS years in Wing Cun he was beaten like a little kid but a man with 1/4th his expeirience.

    Kung Fu sucks.

    Im writing a TOTALLY no holds barred interview for this site. Please please PLEASE check it out when its finished. It might help to enlighten you a bit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wheels
    replied
    I would say that the artist is more important then the style in most situations, but those who train in a more realistic environment will be better when it gets real.

    Interesting. I agree mostly. But I put this question to you. Assuming cloning was real (hear me out) and we could genetically clone two of the same individual. A learns style A for 5 years and B learns style B for 5 years. Put them in the ring and who will win? Just a thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • Streetfighter
    replied
    I would say that the artist is more important then the style in most situations, but those who train in a more realistic environment will be better when it gets real.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wheels
    replied
    Also I read somewhere that Braden trains in Bagua. I am interested to know where / with whom? I trained in VA under Bok Nam Park. Before I go into that I should say I got a lot of good strethching from Park. Some footwork I even found valuable / the stepping aspect. And have seen similarities in Muay Thai. I left Park to learn to fight. Real fighting. I train BJJ/Judo/Muay Thai and Greco. I have been in fights against kung fu practitioners (2)since then and will be glad to give you the account.
    Suffice it to say you need only watch Gracie in Action to know that Kung fu is not very practical.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wheels
    replied
    Kungfudoeswork-
    Have you every seen Gracie in action??? All the examples in the world there. 1 and 2 I can post a link where you can buy them. Do yourself a favor man, let it go. Just let it go. It just isnt practical. I will say against someone who knows nothing it may (may) give you an advantage. Here we have evidenced many DIFFERENT styles of Kung fu against primarily grapplers only. God help these guys against a fully trained mma Thai/BJJ fighter.

    Leave a comment:


  • SifuAbel
    replied
    excuse me but your dancing around the only question I really care about. Let me remind you of it:

    ["Personally, I've seen enough of "hit me in the face" Kung Fu to know that I won't be using it in a fight any time soon.

    BS meter ticking off the scale. Where? Who? This should be good. And please don't say delucia. That dog won't hunt. Please give us concrete, first hand, not seen on TV, experience.]

    This line seem to put your "experience" in perspective.

    "Was that site my entire experience with shitty Kung Fu? No again, but it makes up a significant part of it....."

    How significant? was in 80% ? 90%? You say you've "seen" tai chi done "once"? And you call that experience?
    HecK, if that monk lost in fight, one, It would probably be a heck of a fight. And two, at least it would be a real current topic to write about rather than an 80 year old event. How myopic can one person be? Geezus! Gu yi Chen was alive then, why aren't you talking about his fights? Or all the friggin lei tai matches that went before and after that?

    McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?

    Leave a comment:


  • Braden
    replied
    Mercurius

    "Also, Braden. Don't be ridiculous, I'm sure it's much harder to imagine a Thai boxer starting like that than a Kung Fu man starting with one of his hands in a less than practical but aesthetically pleasing position."

    I'm not sure how to attack this statement since you never give any defense for it. The only obvious explanation is that you have difficulty imagining a Thai boxer starting like that because you're familiar enough with Thai boxing to know that they don't. Of course, the obvious corollary is that you're not familiar with kungfu, which is why you you have no problem imagining something which isn't true.

    Case in point, the 'one hand up in the air' posture which you accurately criticize as a guard position (the lower of the two pictures in your post on page two) isn't a guard picture at all, but rather the termination of a technique (exactly like a Thai boxer with one leg extended at temple height; which is why I used it as an analogy - also, this has allready been pointed out in this thread, but I'm assuming you missed it/misunderstood it/didn't believe it). I would have to have seen the movement, but movements I'm familiar with leading to such a posture are often used, for example, as rotary throws (kaitennage, puter kepala, etc) or scoops to throw off the opponent's mid-or-higher kick.

    "On the second point, I have no experience studying Tai Chi, but having been a martial artist for a while, you pick up things."

    It's unclear as to whether or how you feel this is an explanation or defense for the idea that you could adequately judge whether or not the individual in question was doing taiji; certainly, whether you're a more adequate judge of this than the individual's teacher who has studied for twenty years and feels it fits the criteria.

    "But like I've said before, I'm not going to listen to a guy that is giving me advice that will get me hit, nor will I fight in a way that is likely to have similar result."

    I'm sure no one has ever suggested otherwise. Looking back at the thread, it seems that you are the only one suggesting that these kungfu practitioners are advocating, for example, 'using only one hand to guard against MT's hand work'. Everyone else has been trying to explain (or certainly, I have) that this was simply a false impression you were under; perhaps with good reason.

    "Anyway, it's been a nice flamewar, boys. Almost regret starting it, but sometimes you forget there's bait on the pole, know what I'm saying? You all can have the last word if you like, I won't be needing it."

    I'm not sure where you got the impression our discussion was a flame war, or that it was the sort of situation where 'having the last word' was meaningfull. Again looking back over my posts, I can't see any instance where I've been confrontational, insulting, or condescending; only cases where I have disagreed with you, and outlined my disagreement directly, with ample evidence from available sources. I'm sorry if you got a different impression.

    Edited by - Braden on July 26 2002 04:24:29

    Leave a comment:


  • Mercurius
    replied
    Hey, KungFuDoesWork, how the fuck exactly is a website titled "Journal of Chinese Martial Science" anti-Kung Fu? That's like making the title for the Al-qaeda training manual "How to Celebrate the 4th of July".

    Yeah, these people were small, but they were masters. They tried to pick their best guys because they weren't exactly Shoeless Joe Jackson throwing the game, no, they wanted Kung Fu to beat Muay Thai, but the best Kung Fu could do was last two rounds.

    As for the answer to your question, if you fired your staff of typing monkeys and took a few seconds to read my post, you'd remember I said "They used the same manner of Kung Fu which I'm talking about".

    These Kung Fu men, whom you seem so eager to ostracize and disparage as not representative of Kung Fu (just like our pal in the video here), got their asses handed to them. They fought, using Kung Fu. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure that had something to do with how well they did. These Chinese fighters may not have been cut like the Thai boxers, but using a more effective style might have helped them last more than one round. In fact, our friend who managed to survive two rounds was actually 20 pounds heavier than his opponent.

    Was that site my "entire experience with kung fu"? Certainly not. Was that site my entire experience with shitty Kung Fu? No again, but it makes up a significant part of it, enough for me to decide that I'd leave people less concerned for their physical welfare in a fight to take up guards where their hair is better protected than their face.

    Jesus, man! I bet if Shi Yan Ming lost a fight, you'd say "He's not real Shaolin, he's not flexible, he could barely touch his toes..."

    Also, Braden. Don't be ridiculous, I'm sure it's much harder to imagine a Thai boxer starting like that than a Kung Fu man starting with one of his hands in a less than practical but aesthetically pleasing position. On the second point, I have no experience studying Tai Chi, but having been a martial artist for a while, you pick up things. I've seen Tai Chi done before, and what I'm saying is, any photo can show you a guy throwing a punch, but a video can show you a guy doing a fluent parry followed by throwing a punch.

    The last thing I want to do is judge good Kung Fu/CMA. I can dig Wing Chun being Bruce Lee's foundation for JKD, Tai Chi being Mas Oyama's only real defeat, Bagua's movement(hell, I'll be the first to admit Karate feels more like fencing when the sparring matches go back-and forth) and such.

    But like I've said before, I'm not going to listen to a guy that is giving me advice that will get me hit, nor will I fight in a way that is likely to have similar result. Presenting your leg to a Muay Thai guy so he can kick it from under you? Using only one hand to guard against MT's hand work? It's like poking yourself in the eye with a sharp stick- you know not to do it yourself (well, Braden probably knows, but KFDW I'm not sure about) because someone did it before you and got hurt.

    Anyway, it's been a nice flamewar, boys. Almost regret starting it, but sometimes you forget there's bait on the pole, know what I'm saying? You all can have the last word if you like, I won't be needing it.



    --------------------
    And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Leave a comment:

Collapse

Edit this module to specify a template to display.

Working...
X