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  • Andy Kaufman
    replied
    I don't know him personally, but my eight step mantis friends swear one of theirs stepped into UFC and won two matches there.
    that is not a safe bet.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wheels
    replied
    "I dont believe everyone is incapable of it. MOST however are not."

    You're absolutely right, of course.

    But the people who are capable of it aren't limited to your outlook.

    The internet houses thousands of pages of argument 'proving' kungfu is useless. Yet there's a guy with one year of tai chi experience cleaning up MMA up here in Canada. http://www.mixedmartialarts.ca/HTML/Rumble5/09JeremiahJason.htm . Long before the MMA scene existed, a trainer stepped up and showed repeatedly that classically trained xingyi men could thrash Thai boxers at the standup game http://www.hsing-i.com/school_awards/index.html . I don't know him personally, but my eight step mantis friends swear one of theirs stepped into UFC and won two matches there. Yeah, there's people like this now, there was people like this before the arguments that kungfu was useless, and there will be people like this long after. This should tell you something.

    I know Tim Cartmell (not personally). He's a good example of someone mixing classical chinese training methods with BJJ. I believe he's done quite well at BJJ tourneys using his bagua training in standup, the way many other BJJ stylists use wrestling and judo.

    He seems like a nice guy (like most people who train regularly), and represents Luo De Xiu's Gao bagua, which is generally highly regarded in north america as a hands-on, applicable training method. I've never met any of Park's people myself, but from what I've seen of his system, it seems too complex for my tastes.

    I've also played with a bit of BJJ. I don't have the problems with it many kungfu guys seems to have; I suspect because I've actually met people in the context of training, so I know they're mostly nice, humble people. Knowing how to find the guard and sweep are great skills for anyone.



    Edited by - Braden on July 26 2002 13:38:43

    Been fun guys. Off to enjoy the weekend now. Train hard!!! Here we debate, in the real world all of us rep Martial Arts!! WE are martial artists.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    As always, nice post Braden.

    Guys like Braden are the reason I even have a ground game now. They convinced me that it was important.

    By the same token, there is a reason that I have stuck with six elbows kung fu, and it wasn't tradition. It's because the best fighters I've seen out here come from it, so I went with it. And stuck with it.

    You want to clinch me, you might take me down, but you will experience the most violent clinch of your life, if I'm doing things right, and that violence is all kung fu, baby. Tested, passed, and entirely workable when you know what you're doing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Braden
    replied
    "I dont believe everyone is incapable of it. MOST however are not."

    You're absolutely right, of course.

    But the people who are capable of it aren't limited to your outlook.

    The internet houses thousands of pages of argument 'proving' kungfu is useless. Yet there's a guy with one year of tai chi experience cleaning up MMA up here in Canada. http://www.mixedmartialarts.ca/HTML/Rumble5/09JeremiahJason.htm . Long before the MMA scene existed, a trainer stepped up and showed repeatedly that classically trained xingyi men could thrash Thai boxers at the standup game http://www.hsing-i.com/school_awards/index.html . I don't know him personally, but my eight step mantis friends swear one of theirs stepped into UFC and won two matches there. Yeah, there's people like this now, there was people like this before the arguments that kungfu was useless, and there will be people like this long after. This should tell you something.

    I know Tim Cartmell (not personally). He's a good example of someone mixing classical chinese training methods with BJJ. I believe he's done quite well at BJJ tourneys using his bagua training in standup, the way many other BJJ stylists use wrestling and judo.

    He seems like a nice guy (like most people who train regularly), and represents Luo De Xiu's Gao bagua, which is generally highly regarded in north america as a hands-on, applicable training method. I've never met any of Park's people myself, but from what I've seen of his system, it seems too complex for my tastes.

    I've also played with a bit of BJJ. I don't have the problems with it many kungfu guys seems to have; I suspect because I've actually met people in the context of training, so I know they're mostly nice, humble people. Knowing how to find the guard and sweep are great skills for anyone.



    Edited by - Braden on July 26 2002 13:38:43

    Leave a comment:


  • Phil
    replied
    Here is a good page on MA for Self Defence:
    http://www.24fightingchickens.com/shotokan/101/06_defense.html

    The part labled "Platform Dependency" relates well to many discussions on this board.

    As for the MMA guy vs Kung Fu stylist, I downloaded it, but it won't work! Can anyone tell me what file format it is? The MT vs TKD one works for me, but not MMA vs KF.

    Phil

    Leave a comment:


  • Wheels
    replied
    Wheels

    I'm glad to hear you're open-minded enough in your training to find out what works for you and train at it.

    I'm less glad to hear you're closed-minded enough to believe that no one else is capable of the same.

    I'm not sure what else there is to say on the topic.

    "My hate is that someone can be so blindly devoted to one thing and not consider others."

    I feel the exact same way. Only I'd call it more of an ambivalent distaste than a hate, really.

    Edited by - Braden on July 26 2002 13:07:35
    Braden - seems like I remember you saying you study Bagua. If so, have you heard of Tim Cartmell?? Very interesting concepts on combining BJJ (Rickson style) and Bagua. May be of interest to you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wheels
    replied
    Wheels

    I'm glad to hear you're open-minded enough in your training to find out what works for you and train at it.

    I'm less glad to hear you're closed-minded enough to believe that no one else is capable of the same.

    I'm not sure what else there is to say on the topic.

    "My hate is that someone can be so blindly devoted to one thing and not consider others."

    I feel the exact same way. Only I'd call it more of an ambivalent distaste than a hate, really.

    Edited by - Braden on July 26 2002 13:07:35
    I see your point for sure.
    I dont believe everyone is incapable of it. MOST however are not.
    Throughout this journey I have faced harsh truths about what I put my faith in. Finding out first hand what works and does not. I have had to admit to myself that I have wasted a lot of time in diff styles. But not all time was wasted. I have taken something usefull from each style. If not but the streching techniques.

    Leave a comment:


  • Braden
    replied
    Wheels

    I'm glad to hear you're open-minded enough in your training to find out what works for you and train at it.

    I'm less glad to hear you're closed-minded enough to believe that no one else is capable of the same.

    I'm not sure what else there is to say on the topic.

    "My hate is that someone can be so blindly devoted to one thing and not consider others."

    I feel the exact same way. Only I'd call it more of an ambivalent distaste than a hate, really.

    Edited by - Braden on July 26 2002 13:07:35

    Leave a comment:


  • Wheels
    replied
    Wheels,
    Did he spar his pa kua in class, full contact, and spar regularly outside of class against other stylists?

    i.e. prove it is the style and not the school or the stylist.

    You'll find yourself having to provide such proof in the future when there are more mma schools that can provide credentials, and you have your own mcdojo's.

    But enjoy your day in the sun.

    Hell, when I studied longfist, there were some of them who weren't very good, and some who were. Your one case scenario adds up to anecdotal evidence, which doesn't really prove anything.

    Tell you what, relate to us your sterling fight history, and we'll judge your style by how many of your fights are documented, OK? By your logic, bjj must really suck, as most bjj practitioners don't fight in nhb competitions, just a core group, but just do undocumented rolling in the school.

    I'm rolling my eyes at you right now.


    I agree 100% this incedent proves nothing.
    However, the question was posed, what is your experience in sparring against Kung Fu. That is my experience. Take it for what you will. Haters come in all forms. My hate is that someone can be so blindly devoted to one thing and not consider others. I have tried kung fu. It doesnt work. End of story

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    BTW, wheels, I am not a hater, I enjoy picking up groundfighting, but I can tell you that the kung fu I study works just find, and other stylists usually try to avoid clinching with me unless they are substantially larger, because my style is brutal in the clinch, and I spend a lot of time working on that.

    In any case, how can you call anyone the hater, when it's you who hates kung fu? Seems a little hypocritical to me.

    What, did kung fu steal your lunch money as a kid, and you're bitter? Oh sorry, forgot, you still are a kid.

    There I go, rolling my eyes again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Wheels,
    Did he spar his pa kua in class, full contact, and spar regularly outside of class against other stylists?

    i.e. prove it is the style and not the school or the stylist.

    You'll find yourself having to provide such proof in the future when there are more mma schools that can provide credentials, and you have your own mcdojo's.

    But enjoy your day in the sun.

    Hell, when I studied longfist, there were some of them who weren't very good, and some who were. Your one case scenario adds up to anecdotal evidence, which doesn't really prove anything.

    Tell you what, relate to us your sterling fight history, and we'll judge your style by how many of your fights are documented, OK? By your logic, bjj must really suck, as most bjj practitioners don't fight in nhb competitions, just a core group, but just do undocumented rolling in the school.

    I'm rolling my eyes at you right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wheels
    replied
    All those? You mean the less than four that were supposedly kung fu( they were not our best at all) that did trash most of their opponents anyway to get to gracie, ten years ago? Those four? Or was it three when it turned out delucia was a kempo guy. And it still comes down to YOU, punkass. I don't beleive that ba gua story. Even if that is true, you fought 1 kung fu guy total? An internal stylist at that, which may not have been doing it for martial practice? Buy a clue if you have to, buddy. You don't know jack.

    McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?
    Lets face it you are a hater. You will never consider training in groundfighting because you refuse to admit you have wasted your time in something less effective. Thats ok though. One more delusional Mfer I would destroy in a real fight.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wheels
    replied
    All those? You mean the less than four that were supposedly kung fu( they were not our best at all) that did trash most of their opponents anyway to get to gracie, ten years ago? Those four? Or was it three when it turned out delucia was a kempo guy. And it still comes down to YOU, punkass. I don't beleive that ba gua story. Even if that is true, you fought 1 kung fu guy total? An internal stylist at that, which may not have been doing it for martial practice? Buy a clue if you have to, buddy. You don't know jack.

    McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?
    BWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yes, all of them. So what about them? What could they have done better?? Doesnt matter if you believe my story or not. He studied to fight. He was told the things he was learning were applicable in a real fight. Internal or not. I would choke your ass in 30 seconds, discard you atop the pile of many who refuse to admit their shit stinks. I am not ashamed to admit that while training BJJ I was beaten in sparring many times by strikers. Muay Thai. And now I have added it to my own arsenal.
    Sounds to me like you would like to be the official representative of Kung Fu. That it? Because those or four in the video were not your best. Because they have trashed many to get to the Gracies? Still waiting on your take of those guys.

    Leave a comment:


  • SDriver
    replied
    Style B will win every time.

    Leave a comment:


  • SifuAbel
    replied
    All those? You mean the less than four that were supposedly kung fu( they were not our best at all) that did trash most of their opponents anyway to get to gracie, ten years ago? Those four? Or was it three when it turned out delucia was a kempo guy. And it still comes down to YOU, punkass. I don't beleive that ba gua story. Even if that is true, you fought 1 kung fu guy total? An internal stylist at that, which may not have been doing it for martial practice? Buy a clue if you have to, buddy. You don't know jack.

    McDojo, is it what you do or is it what you think?

    Leave a comment:

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