To Confront Or Not?

[BrigSnip]

I hope that as a newbie I'm not out of line here. Here's my situation... I'm at a Judo school watching in on a class including my brother. This is his fourth class. Being proficient in Sambo, I know what grappling techniques work. I saw some good things and some bad. I saw a kataha jime, but it was called sankaku jime for some reason. Anyway, overall it looked like a well-established place to learn.

After class, I talked to the instructor, one Dan Ellis. When asked, I told him that I had experience in martial arts. I didn't say which ones (Muay Thai and Sambo). He starts telling me how he also teaches Muay Thai, although he pronounced it "moo tie" instead of "moy tie". His techniques sounded suspicious. A lot of sidekicks and throwing by pushing the opponent over your leg (not the same as a Thai-style sweep). I asked how long it typically takes for Yok Kru at his place of study. "You mean to get your black belt?" he said. Next, I asked him what a Wai Kru was. I acted like I didn't know. Well, neither did he. Should I confront this guy at the next class, or what? If so, what do you suggest I say to him? I appreciate any helpful replies, as I think this qualifies as Bullshido.

Just so you non-Muay Thai guys know, Yok Kru is the period before any training where the teacher accepts the student and vice versa. Wai Kru is the "dance" that you do before a fight to show respect to your camp and instructor.

[feedback]

He might just know "kickboxing" with elbows and knees, and be calling it muay thai. Don't "call him out" yet, ask to spar with him, or have him teach you basic techniques first.

[celticdragon03]

Yeah be careful, it can be a pretty risky move calling out an instructor you have never taken classes from before. I would say find out more about his techniques, and what exactly he is teaching before doing anything.

[MaverickZ]

what do you hope to achieve by "confronting" this person?

[Punisher]

what do you hope to achieve by "confronting" this person?

I'm with Maverick. Sounds to me the guy was just trying to make pleasant conversation. It's not like the guys claimed he spent 4 years training and fighting in Thailand.

[Senshi]

although he pronounced it "moo tie" instead of "moy tie".

A few years back here in Oz there was a programme on TV that was showing fights from the Thai Stadiums. The Show had 'American' commentators and voice over for the intro. This show pronounced Muay Thai as 'mooie tie'. Now while the pronunciation used to piss me off it did not stop the show from being good value.

So saying I know a lot of Thai fighters here that fight under full Thai rules who would not know what the Wai Kru was.

The point of this post is 'don't judge a book by its cover' this guy may be legit, attend a few lessons first.

BTW how long have YOU been training Muay Thai? You say your proficient in Sambo but have experience in Muay Thai.

[J-Lau]

I've heard many knowledgeable people call it "Moo Tie".

So you basically think its crap because he doesnt follow the same terminology as you? We have lots of different names for things, most of which are most likely wrong, but thats what we refer to them as.

Spar with him, see how he does. I think you are jumping the gun on calling it Bullshido.

[BrigSnip]

Thanks to all who replied. I've spent nearly four years training in Muay Thai. I don't consider myself an expert by any means, but I expected that somebody who teaches it would know the terms that even I know. I realize that he may be teaching a certain style of kickboxing and calling it something else. I just got suspicious by hearing about a lot of sidekicks, and throws that would be out of place in Muay Thai, but calling it Muay Thai anyway.

I don't know what I want to accomplish by confronting him, maybe just learning how he was taught the techniques of Muay Thai. He doesn't seem like a bad guy at all, just unknowledgable with the proper terms. I'm going to a few more classes as an observer, and I plan on talking to him about sparring. If I'm jumping the gun (and I probably am) then I apologize.

[Omega Supreme]

I hope that as a newbie I'm not out of line here. Here's my situation... I'm at a Judo school watching in on a class including my brother. This is his fourth class. Being proficient in Sambo, I know what grappling techniques work. I saw some good things and some bad. I saw a kataha jime, but it was called sankaku jime for some reason. Anyway, overall it looked like a well-established place to learn.

After class, I talked to the instructor, one Dan Ellis. When asked, I told him that I had experience in martial arts. I didn't say which ones (Muay Thai and Sambo). He starts telling me how he also teaches Muay Thai, although he pronounced it "moo tie" instead of "moy tie". His techniques sounded suspicious. A lot of sidekicks and throwing by pushing the opponent over your leg (not the same as a Thai-style sweep). I asked how long it typically takes for Yok Kru at his place of study. "You mean to get your black belt?" he said. Next, I asked him what a Wai Kru was. I acted like I didn't know. Well, neither did he. Should I confront this guy at the next class, or what? If so, what do you suggest I say to him? I appreciate any helpful replies, as I think this qualifies as Bullshido.

Just so you non-Muay Thai guys know, Yok Kru is the period before any training where the teacher accepts the student and vice versa. Wai Kru is the "dance" that you do before a fight to show respect to your camp and instructor.

No, don't bother with the confrontation. The bottom line is this. It sounds like you've taken actual Muay Thai (The style) as opposed to American style Muay Thai Kickboxing in which I've seen many members here participate in. Some schools have gone so far as to add belts. There are also schools that teach Muay Thai style kickboxing but aren't really Muay Thai schools. Welcome to the real world. The bottom line is can he fight and can he teach people to fight. The conversation may come up later and if it does you may be able to approach him on a more educated level.

Of course if he's an asshole you can just let him have it with both guns and heel hook his fucking ass if he gives you any lip.

[Little Idea]

He has a bad lineage

not the r34l Muay Thai

Challenge him to a death match with lava and glass :spanky:

[Yrkoon9]

Rope match.

[_Mick_]

the best way to see if he sucks, is spar him. if you can easily beat his ass, he isn't too legit.

he probably just practices muay thai the fighting style, not muay thai the art. to elaborate, he just doesn't give a shit about tradition, just kicking and elbowing people.

or he could just be a fraud.

[BrigSnip]

Again, thanks to everybody who responded. I'm going to be watching a few classes (the instructor told me that was okay) and go from there. So far it looks like a good place to learn Judo, which is the only reason my brother is there. I'll invite Mr. Ellis to spar with me if he wants to.

Omega, I hear you. No confronting or name-calling. Just watching. If he's a fraud, then we'll see during contact sparring (with lava and glass lol). If he isn't, then I'm glad he's able to teach real fighting to others.

[The Train]

I want to be taught how to fight, not how to dance.

[BrigSnip]

It sounds like we'll be sparring shortly. He said "Come in Tuesday at 7pm and I'll see what we can set up." Just as an FYI, he does award belts in Muay Thai after all.