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    Cults or McDojos?

    Greetings, all!

    I'm new to this forum, but from reading posts I say, great job guys!

    I totally agree that there are plenty of frauds teaching gullible suckers some forms of mockery they call self-defence and making nice money in the process. I heard enough about various "Ninjas" before visiting this forum, and also heard enough claims about some "Shifu's" powerful "Chi" to last me a lifetime.

    However, I would like to ask a following question, is it me, or some dojos are in reality cults? Let me explain. i live in Brooklyn, NY, and in few blocks there is a Martial arts dojo. Since I don't practice on a regular basis now due to busy work schedule, I decided to visit that dojo on my day off.

    Well, I have NEVER seen a dojo where

    1. There is an altar with the "Sensei's" photo, to which all students must bow on their knees befor a session starts.

    2. When their sensei enters the room, all students fall on their knees, bow, and say "Grand-Master," or "Sensei."

    3. Yea, the Sensei is a big ex-Boxer dude, Golden Gloves winner, then started his own Martial Art, made himself 10th dan. But to bow him on my knees?

    4. THe Martial art is supposedly, as I have been told, a mix of ALL martial arts. They have 365 (!) kicks alone. Incorporate following MAs :

    #2
    A lot of Martial Arts schools operate like a Cult of Personality.

    Comment


      #3
      see Oom Yung Doe

      http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=15780

      Comment


        #4
        It's cultish, and based on an incredibly bad interpretation of Japanese grammar. I *hate* it when I see moronic Americans[1] who insist that their students call them 'sensei' and count out reps in Japanese, as if their ability to badly count to ten could in any way help them win a fight; are bullies afraid of the decimal system or something?. Most of these morons use phrases that are so far outside their normal usage sphere that it sounds really stupid to those who DO speak Japanese, and it's all for the sake of appearing 'exotic'. It's also another aspect of cult-like behaviour, namely, having an 'inside language'.

        All the bowing and scraping is another misinterpretation of Japanese culture; yes, the Japanese bow. A lot. They don't get down on their knees and do it, except maybe at certain special ceremonies when they're already sitting seiza-style (e.g., sitting on their knees) anyway. A Japanese martial arts instructor would NEVER put his own picture up in a shrine; at the most, he might put up a picture of his grandfather or another family member. Even more importantly, while students are supposed to show respect to the master in a Japanese martial arts school, the master is likewise expected to honor that respect and treat his students with dignity.

        [1] Yes, I'm a moronic American, but at least I know enough Japanese to know that the phrase 'domo' doesn't mean anything. 'Oshiete kudasatte arigatou gozaimasu' ('Thank you for gracing us with your instruction, honorable teacher!') is what they're looking for (for the students), and 'ganbatte kurete arigatou' ('Thank you for doing your best.') would be good for the instructor.

        Comment


          #5
          Sou desu ne.
          "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.

          Comment


            #6
            I did a very short stint at a jujutsu dojo. The head instructor had branched off from some other traditional Japanese system and created his own. In some of his literature, he wrote that he seeks to attain spiritual enlightenment through this new style of jujutsu. This struck me as an annoucement that he had created his own religion.

            Shortly after joining, I became aware that several of the students actually lived in the dojo, while the head instructor did not. The dojo was a slot in something similar to a stripmall that happened to be equipped with a full bathroom. I also heard that one of the students who lived there (a young female who I am almost certain was not older than seventeen) was from a city about an hour and a half north of the area, and that is where her parents still are.

            The last weird thing that comes to mind was that all the black belts, save for one, all looked the same. I mean same hair cut, same mustache, same goatee, and same weird glazed look in their eyes.

            I stayed at the school for a month, which is what I had paid for, and then left under the pretense that it was interfering with my school work.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by HerniaMan
              They have 365 (!) kicks alone.

              366 on leap years I guess.

              Comment


                #8
                I wonder how they know which kick to use, perhaps they look at the calendar.
                "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Blond haired, blue-eyed Samurai-wannabees are always good for a laugh. I always get a kick out of the over enthusiastic green belt that's always dropping to the floor and bowing at a moments notice, screaming out "arigatou gozaimasu," and walking around liked a really cheezy imitation of Toshiro Mifune, every dojo has one.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Blond haired, blue-eyed Samurai-wannabees
                    You're just jealous that we're the master race.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Absolutely...*adjusts your obie*

                      Comment


                        #12
                        hmmmm... my school has a picture of a bunch of old dead people on the altar. We bow when the instructor comes but not on our knees. we count 1-10 in cantonese but thats no big deal since I knew that since I was a baby. Observe the cultish behavior of a CMA.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Matadon
                          It's cultish, and based on an incredibly bad interpretation of Japanese grammar. I *hate* it when I see moronic Americans[1] who insist that their students call them 'sensei' and count out reps in Japanese, as if their ability to badly count to ten could in any way help them win a fight; are bullies afraid of the decimal system or something?. Most of these morons use phrases that are so far outside their normal usage sphere that it sounds really stupid to those who DO speak Japanese, and it's all for the sake of appearing 'exotic'. It's also another aspect of cult-like behaviour, namely, having an 'inside language'.

                          All the bowing and scraping is another misinterpretation of Japanese culture; yes, the Japanese bow. A lot. They don't get down on their knees and do it, except maybe at certain special ceremonies when they're already sitting seiza-style (e.g., sitting on their knees) anyway. A Japanese martial arts instructor would NEVER put his own picture up in a shrine; at the most, he might put up a picture of his grandfather or another family member. Even more importantly, while students are supposed to show respect to the master in a Japanese martial arts school, the master is likewise expected to honor that respect and treat his students with dignity.

                          [1] Yes, I'm a moronic American, but at least I know enough Japanese to know that the phrase 'domo' doesn't mean anything. 'Oshiete kudasatte arigatou gozaimasu' ('Thank you for gracing us with your instruction, honorable teacher!') is what they're looking for (for the students), and 'ganbatte kurete arigatou' ('Thank you for doing your best.') would be good for the instructor.
                          Preach.
                          Lone Wolf McQuade Final Fight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmrDe_mYUXg

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Matadon

                            Even more importantly, while students are supposed to show respect to the master in a Japanese martial arts school, the master is likewise expected to honor that respect and treat his students with dignity.
                            That's relative, in many japanese professions, especially those of the blue collar variety, the master slaps the student upside his head or berates him when he does something stupid. There's no dignity or respect in the masters actions because the student has not earned his teachers respect.

                            [1] Yes, I'm a moronic American, but at least I know enough Japanese to know that the phrase 'domo' doesn't mean anything.
                            Actually, it does. Domo is a very informal way of saying 'thank you' and 'I beg your pardon.' It depends on how and when it's used during a conversation.

                            'Oshiete kudasatte arigatou gozaimasu' ('Thank you for gracing us with your instruction, honorable teacher!')
                            Where did you get the honorable teacher part?
                            Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by j416to
                              Absolutely...*adjusts your obie*
                              Unless you're talking about an off-broadway award, don't put your hands that close to my crotch.

                              It bites.
                              Last edited by MEGA JESUS-SAMA; 2/07/2005 11:33pm, .

                              Comment

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