wing chun vs tong long

[Danielsan]

What would be a perfect supplement to my WC training? I recognize it's shortcomings but I am not sure what art would compliment it? Muay Thai? Kempo? Help me out here...

[Negativecr33p]

Honestly, I don't know what everyone's big fucking deal with wing chun is. A GOOD wing chun fighter would almost certainly win against any karete/taekwondo bullshit. Including Kyukoshin. Unless they were also good boxers. Of course any good wing chun fighter, IMO learns muay thai as well. In which case it wouldn't fucking matter what they took. It would come down to who has the better training, and is more skillful. I'm so fucking sick I hearing lame ass jokes about wing chun. Muay Thai is very fucking good. Brazillian Jiu Jitsu is very fucking good. Kyukoshin spars hard. There's ALOT of bad wing chun. Get over it. Yay. Flame away. Yeah, I know the threads old.

[kungfujew]

I've been considering adding either wing chun or tong long to my training regime. Whilst it would be mainly for speed / drills / reflexes / coordination purposes, I would still like whichever choice I made to have some sort of street applicability.

Comments? Advice?

Now I know it ultimately depends on the school and their training methods, but just as an art, which one in your opinion / experience is more street applicable?

Cheers

Being of course a little biased towards the latter of the two, I would say tong long, though if you're going to be "adding it to your regime," I can't guarantee the quality of the results, instead of say concentrating on tong long as a foundation and adding to it. If you want pure speed and aggression, go for tong long. Not that I have any problems with wing chun, I just don't know that much about it and haven't come into contact with many WC fighters, so I'm just going off of what I AM familiar with.

You're in Vegas, so I don't know any schools that I'm affiliated with in your area, but if you're ever on either of the coasts, look up the nearest tai chi praying mantis federation school: SF East Bay, San Jose, Los Angeles, Vancouver, Boston, Virginia

[TehDeadlyDimMak]

This thread is OLD, it's been months I'd be shocked if he hasn't already found a school. DIE THREAD DIE.

[Lefty]

Do WC for fast hands. It would give complimentary skills because of the range.

[ant]

Rick Spain has a good rep, but the combat centre looks like commercial "Gweilo Kuen." Lots of MMA action, lots of sparring, good combat skills, but drifting away from TCMA. The facilities look nice. I would suspect they have a tougher conditioning regieme. Your JJ will probably give you some cred in that gym.
Not knowing you or your objectives, I can only say to look for the teacher that you feel most comfortable with. Are you looking for Traditional Chinese stuff, or simply more combat skills? WC is easier to learn, SPM is harder to understand in the beginning, but has long term pay-offs if you want to go the traditional route.

I had 2 weeks off the cardio/conditioning cos of the flu - went back last night to do a class and almost decorated the floor with vomit. I had a chat to one of the other people who are new to the system (he'd done some kickboxing in sweden), and he felt the same. That's all good though cos if a class isn't challenging then I'm obviously not being challenged to learn or get fitter. Watching the seniors(5+ yrs) train, as well as how they move and their reactions-I would say that they are also experiencing long term payoffs. :)

[[email protected]]

Hmm Hum, anything extra you wish to add cause i was burning my brain at how this relates to the thread...

well, I guess I'd just throw it in to the mix of schools for him to consider.

[DubhGhaill]

The mantis school looks terrible.

The (Wing Chun) Combat Centre should be ok. I used to train at the Sydney location, but left when I realized I could learn faster by just taking Boxing or Kickboxing.

If you're interested in street applicability, why have you narrowed it down to Kung Fu?

[Yum Cha]

I've been considering adding either wing chun or tong long to my training regime. Whilst it would be mainly for speed / drills / reflexes / coordination purposes, I would still like whichever choice I made to have some sort of street applicability.

Comments? Advice?

Now I know it ultimately depends on the school and their training methods, but just as an art, which one in your opinion / experience is more street applicable?

Cheers

Hi Prodigal -
Brizzy is one of the few places in the world you can study good Southern Praying Mantis. The Sue brothers and a guy named Paul Brennen have a rivalry that keeps the level high. They are all students of Ip Shui I believe, and have pedigree. Only problem is picking which one is your fit.

Rick Spain has a good rep, but the combat centre looks like commercial "Gweilo Kuen." Lots of MMA action, lots of sparring, good combat skills, but drifting away from TCMA. The facilities look nice. I would suspect they have a tougher conditioning regieme. Your JJ will probably give you some cred in that gym.

Not knowing you or your objectives, I can only say to look for the teacher that you feel most comfortable with. Are you looking for Traditional Chinese stuff, or simply more combat skills? WC is easier to learn, SPM is harder to understand in the beginning, but has long term pay-offs if you want to go the traditional route.


Good luck.

[Striker1976]

Hi,

Just wanted to let you know that there is a WT school in Brisbane as well (South Brisbane area). You can contact the instructor through the Australian website on http://www.wingtsun.com.au/site/Contact/contact.html They offer 2 trial lessons as well as a demo every 2nd week.

Cheers,
[email protected]

Hmm Hum, anything extra you wish to add cause i was burning my brain at how this relates to the thread...

[[email protected]]

Sorry for the delay, but:

www.chinesekungfuacademy.com/home.htm - mantis

www.combatcentres.com/queensland.html - chunners

Cheers

Hi,

Just wanted to let you know that there is a WT school in Brisbane as well (South Brisbane area). You can contact the instructor through the Australian website on http://www.wingtsun.com.au/site/Contact/contact.html They offer 2 trial lessons as well as a demo every 2nd week.

Cheers,
[email protected]

[ant]

Yes he's good. He can answer all the questions that i and anyone else throws at him and backs it up with tactical explanations and no bullshit like 'cos its been done this way for 100yrs.' He encourages us to think as well, rather just float through the class. That's been the huge difference between him and the karate styles.

[Striker1976]

In the hung suen wing chun we get taught a lot of blind side positioning as well as blind spot positioning. It's kind of tricky but after a while you keep wanting to move there to get away from the rear hand and from there we get taught to check their balance or disrupt it while going for ko shots. We train to be ambidexterous without favouring one side, and we don't have those super weird low stances that make us vulnerable to low round kicks like that tong long vidoes.

We do chain punching as well- but they seem to be more as an entry technique before finishing off with something that's more of a disabling shot Some of the combat drills that we do contain simultaneous striking, with the first shot sometimes being a stop-hit or feint and then there's a quick shift to where you want to be and then you're manipulating them and hitting targets looking for the KO or leg shot. They even tell us that out of the combat drills, there might only be one or two or three things that we use out of it in a defense situation, but the drills are there for us to learn body mechanics, positioning, spotting what our opponent is going to do etc. It's definitely not mc-dojo or bullshido.

I did shotokan down on the gold coast, and then goju karate at the uni as well as some freestyle karate later (which was good until i moved too far away) but so far it is wing chun that has been the most informative and realistic m.a taught to me for self defense.

Hi Ant,
Si-bak is a very knowledgable fighter, beleive me i know the guy personally and he is a great guy. Hope you enjoy training at the Combat Centres. By the way i train in Sydney so i wont have the hoour of meeting youin person unless i come to QLD and visit.

Just saying hi anyways...

[I aint punchy!?]

OK if your trying to Mantis over WC the biggest question is:
How good are the instructors at the clubs?

Now the best way to look at this is just to go to each club and sit in and watch a session. Then perhaps try and get a few free sessions.

WC and Mantis are similar in many ways (I'm not talking specifics here) but watch out for the fact that WC is much more popular and has been highly merchandised accross Australia.

I personally know no one who has done Mantis (Id like to learn it myself) but people who have done WC from various clubs. Some clubs are woeful, and all they do is rolling punches and walk at you. Other clubs have very high standards, lots of conditioning work, lots of work sparring, and lots of bag work etc.

So if your not fussed then check out the style-as-it-is-taught, which is very different to the idea of a abstract style.

I've made this point before.... a big reason that some arts are considered a hell of a lot more effective is that they encourage a lot more hard training. e.g. I've heard it said that boxers should do at least 2 hours of training a day, 5 days a week. This training is largely bag-work, shadow-boxing, sparring, and skipping. There aint no cruft relaxed sessions for people doing light recreational MA (as such boxing isn't as popular as other styles that can appeal to this large market). If you go along and see a lot of training intensity then its a reasonable club.

Good luck

[ant]

In the hung suen wing chun we get taught a lot of blind side positioning as well as blind spot positioning. It's kind of tricky but after a while you keep wanting to move there to get away from the rear hand and from there we get taught to check their balance or disrupt it while going for ko shots. We train to be ambidexterous without favouring one side, and we don't have those super weird low stances that make us vulnerable to low round kicks like that tong long vidoes.

We do chain punching as well- but they seem to be more as an entry technique before finishing off with something that's more of a disabling shot Some of the combat drills that we do contain simultaneous striking, with the first shot sometimes being a stop-hit or feint and then there's a quick shift to where you want to be and then you're manipulating them and hitting targets looking for the KO or leg shot. They even tell us that out of the combat drills, there might only be one or two or three things that we use out of it in a defense situation, but the drills are there for us to learn body mechanics, positioning, spotting what our opponent is going to do etc. It's definitely not mc-dojo or bullshido.

I did shotokan down on the gold coast, and then goju karate at the uni as well as some freestyle karate later (which was good until i moved too far away) but so far it is wing chun that has been the most informative and realistic m.a taught to me for self defense.