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    Amos Hunter, now I am pissed

    Ok, Afronaut brought up Amos Hunter here: http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19759

    Here is what I posted about Amos:
    Oh, god help me, Amos Hunter.

    Here's the scoop on Amos.

    Amos has a Shodan in Dojin Aikikai Aikido issued by Lloyd "Ed" Francis (who is also my instructor).

    That's it.

    Ok, after that, he joined everybodies favorite, Juko Kai and trained under Dr. Rod. Rod gave him his inflated ranks. He then declared himself Soke of his own style. In 2002, he came back and asked to rejoin Dojin Aikikai and start teaching our style again.

    Ed told him drop the Soke crap, resume his previoulsy awarded rank, and he was welcome back.

    He said no.

    Looks like he hooked up with someone else.

    I am verifing with Ed about his Nidan. He doesn't appear on the roles as a Nidan, but I am just making sure.
    Here is Amos's Website:
    http://www.huntershapkido.com/

    He was originally peddling his Sokeship in Abilene a website that is no longer up and I don't have a cached copy of. It looks like he has since moved to the Austin Area.

    And more of him in Abilene as head of a weapons org he founded:
    http://www.gojushorei.com/studentachievements.htm
    Pic in the middle of the page.

    And more on Soke and the endless list of arts he has founded:
    http://www.aikijujitsu.org/pages/328062/index.htm

    Want more, here's the Google search for you:
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...os+hunter+soke


    Now, up until this point, I was quite happy to leave Amos alone, but now he has gone to far with this:

    From his webpage:


    From the Dojin Aikikai HQ webpage:


    Why does this tick me off you may ask?

    Well, that is a pic from Ed's private collection he asked me, as his webmaster, to put on his page. I'm the sorry sack of crap that used his limmited photo shop skills to put the decorative border around the edge and shrink it to fit in with the text on the page: http://dojin-aikikai-aikido-headquar...om/francis.htm

    Bastard did a cut and past on me, didn't even edit off the border, just enlarged the pic.

    Have at 'em guys. Get me some righteous revenge. Someone in Austin go dojo storm on him.

    Edit: *About the Nidan: He was recommended for Nidan but did not recieve it*
    Last edited by Peter H.; 12/21/2004 12:45pm, .
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn

    #2
    How far is Austin from here?.....

    Death to the infidel!
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!

    Comment


      #3
      Reply to Peter

      Hello Peter. I wanted to update some of the info you posted.

      1. Actually I have no rank from Dojin Aikikai. I do however have a shodan and nidan certificate from Ed while he was still affiliated with Roy Suenaka's organization.

      2. I was a member of Juko Kai and quit in the late 90s because I found his business practices to be questionable at best. I don't beleive I have any reference to that organization on my website.

      3. I did approach Ed about rejoining him and he said I would be welcome back if I could acceot the organization's perspective on ki. We actually had a fairly lengthy discussion and mutually agreed that hapkido (which I began studying in Korea prior to my assignment to Misawa) was probably a more appropriate art for me. We remain friends and I have an invitation. to work out with him when I have the opportunity. I can forward that email to a private email address if you would like.

      4. I don't believe you will find any mention of the word Soke on my current website.

      5. Goju shorei is a weapons system founded by Dave McNeil after his split with Mark Shuey. I claim absolutely no affiliation with that system. However Ed Loomis is ranked as a nidan by Mr McNeil.

      6. What I now claim to be is a 5th Dan in Hapkido as certified by Ronal Suggs. If you go to my photo page, you can see a picture of us doing a demo in Misawa. I also hold a 2nd Dan in TKD as certified by the Kukkiwon and a ist Dan in Judo as certifeid by the U.S. Judo Association.

      7. This is the second time you have attacked me on a public forum so it does seem to be personal. Perhaps it would be more productive if we discuss this privately. You can email me at [email protected]. Or if you would prefer, I will contact Ed to see if he would have some time to mediate a face-to-face discussion. I will make the trip to San Angelo and bring any documents you might want to examine.

      6. After I set up my website I sent the address to Ed and asked him tho let me know if it was ok with him. He said it was and agreed that we could exchange lins if I wanted. If Ed has a problem with the picture I will be happy to remove it. He has my email address.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Amos
        Hello Peter. I wanted to update some of the info you posted.

        1. Actually I have no rank from Dojin Aikikai. I do however have a shodan and nidan certificate from Ed while he was still affiliated with Roy Suenaka's organization.
        You left Suenaka with the rest of Dojin, and your rank transfered. As a Shodan. If I remember your old website, the one you had in Abilene, listed you a shodan.

        2. I was a member of Juko Kai and quit in the late 90s because I found his business practices to be questionable at best. I don't beleive I have any reference to that organization on my website.
        Good on you.

        3. I did approach Ed about rejoining him and he said I would be welcome back if I could acceot the organization's perspective on ki. We actually had a fairly lengthy discussion and mutually agreed that hapkido (which I began studying in Korea prior to my assignment to Misawa) was probably a more appropriate art for me. We remain friends and I have an invitation. to work out with him when I have the opportunity. I can forward that email to a private email address if you would like.
        I am familiar with the discussions. I would be happy to read your e-mails, as I have my perception based on my discussions with Ed. You have an open invitation to come back with the caveat that you will be working within our curriculum, our style, not another style, not the style you made up.

        4. I don't believe you will find any mention of the word Soke on my current website.
        Correct: But from other websites about you:
        AASDA is a member of the American Society of Combat Martial Artists (ASCMA). The ASCMA was created by Soke Amos Hunter 10th Dan founder and head instructor of Oh Do Mu Sul, a street effective combative martial art. Soke Hunter oversees schools throughout the United States from his Hombu in Austin Tx.
        People don't just start calling people Soke. You advertised yourself as such.

        5. Goju shorei is a weapons system founded by Dave McNeil after his split with Mark Shuey. I claim absolutely no affiliation with that system. However Ed Loomis is ranked as a nidan by Mr McNeil.
        The website linked seems to lay a different story out. I said founded, my mistake.

        6. What I now claim to be is a 5th Dan in Hapkido as certified by Ronal Suggs. If you go to my photo page, you can see a picture of us doing a demo in Misawa. I also hold a 2nd Dan in TKD as certified by the Kukkiwon and a ist Dan in Judo as certifeid by the U.S. Judo Association.
        Good enough for me.

        7. This is the second time you have attacked me on a public forum so it does seem to be personal. Perhaps it would be more productive if we discuss this privately. You can email me at [email protected]. Or if you would prefer, I will contact Ed to see if he would have some time to mediate a face-to-face discussion. I will make the trip to San Angelo and bring any documents you might want to examine.
        Ed doesn't fight my battles for me, nor does he mediate my arguments. Why have I come at you? Because when you did your schtick in Abilene and Dyess, it came back to haunt me at Goodfellow AFB. "Oh, you trained with Ed Francis, so did this Amos guy I know...". Your reputation spread to me and my school and by extension Ed. I've worked pretty hard to have a good clean rep for running an honest, no BS, easily understandable and accesable Aikido program. To have my reputation tarnished because when some searches on the internet for Dojin Aikikai, you pop up, turns my stomach. Attack on two websites. I didn't start the thread on E-budo, MC Busman did you that favor. And here, that was Afronaut who brought you up. I honestly thought you had disappeared and I would never hear about you again.

        6. After I set up my website I sent the address to Ed and asked him tho let me know if it was ok with him. He said it was and agreed that we could exchange lins if I wanted. If Ed has a problem with the picture I will be happy to remove it. He has my email address.
        I spoke with Ed about your rank and the picture. He seemed suprised, but did not ask me to ask you to remove it.
        "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
        -My three year old trash talking to me

        "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
        -The Honky Tonk Man

        "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
        -My Father to me one day

        "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
        -Don Gwinn

        Comment


          #5
          Bingo:
          Here's the link I was looking for:
          http://www.geocities.com/edloomis_1957/ASCMA.html

          And here's the other one I forgot:
          http://www.geocities.com/jang_sul/So...Falk_Page.html
          Last edited by Peter H.; 12/21/2004 5:53pm, .
          "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
          -My three year old trash talking to me

          "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
          -The Honky Tonk Man

          "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
          -My Father to me one day

          "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
          -Don Gwinn

          Comment


            #6
            You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Peter H. again.
            "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

            Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!

            Comment


              #7
              Quote: You left Suenaka with the rest of Dojin, and your rank transfered. As a Shodan. If I remember your old website, the one you had in Abilene, listed you a shodan.

              I'll have to dig out my certs, but Shodan was in 86 and nidan was I beleive in 92. Ed tld me I wuld not be issued Dojin Aikikai certs.

              Quote: am familiar with the discussions. I would be happy to read your e-mails, as I have my perception based on my discussions with Ed. You have an open invitation to come back with the caveat that you will be working within our curriculum, our style, not another style, not the style you made up.

              Absolutely. And if one of my Hapkido students wanted to train in Shotokan, I would have to tell them to find another instructor. It was understood that if I came back it would be within the Akido curriculum. Our big difference was on the balance of ki vs, technique and we were not able to resolve that, so I stayed with a slightly harder art.

              Quote: Correct: But from other websites about you: AASDA is a member of the American Society of Combat Martial Artists (ASCMA). The ASCMA was created by Soke Amos Hunter 10th Dan founder and head instructor of Oh Do Mu Sul, a street effective combative martial art. Soke Hunter oversees schools throughout the United States from his Hombu in Austin Tx.

              Well the title was given to me by an organization. At the time I was not fully aware of the meaning or implications. Sometimes people do things based on misinformation, incompletion information or lack of knowledge. Some then correct their mistakes. I claim no title of soke or 10th Dan. I asked that information be changed. I cannot force anyone to change the content of their site.

              Quote:
              5. Goju shorei is a weapons system founded by Dave McNeil after his split with Mark Shuey. I claim absolutely no affiliation with that system. However Ed Loomis is ranked as a nidan by Mr McNeil.
              The website linked seems to lay a different story out. I said founded, my mistake.

              What it was intended to say is that only instructors certified by Dave McNeil would be recognized within the organization as instructors in cane techniques/

              Therein lies the problem. Why does this have to be a battle? I have admitted that I made mistakes in the past and I have corrected them. What penence on my part would be sufficient. Who started the issue on e-budo is irrelevant to me. I chose not to engage then and only did now in an effort to correct some information. If that is not possible, then I will bow out at theis point. I really have no argument with you, I suggested that we have Ed mediate a discussion, because is someone we both know and respect.

              Comment


                #8
                Amos Hunter? As in Christopher Hunter? Yo are u a ninja too? Can u get ur brother's autograph for me? I'd like it written on the porn book he wrote...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Peter H.
                  Bingo:
                  And here's the other one I forgot:
                  http://www.geocities.com/jang_sul/So...Falk_Page.html
                  Who competes in submissive wrestling?

                  Besides some of our forum members.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    All we need here is a couple of references to a legendary buddhist nun, something about the fight between william cheung and leung ting, and a discussion of how f=M x A equals a hard punch et voila! A Wing Chun flame war!
                    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
                    Scramble Stuff

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Doesn't Wash Amos. You didn't know what Soke means, but you took the title and the 10th dan when you created you own art.

                      You didn't know what Soke means, but you worked with Dr. Rod and Bill Miller (Here is the page where you picked up the 5th Dan in Aikido while with Dr. Rod: http://www.geocities.com/jang_sul/So...nter_Page.html , it also tells about your Soke-ship and a few other details)

                      You didn't know what Soke means, but you operate a Hombu in Austin, TX.

                      You didn't know what Soke means, but you appear more times as Soke on almost every martial arts related website your name appears on, as recently as those updated Sept 2, 2004, where seminars withSoke Amos Hunter are advertised.
                      "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
                      -My three year old trash talking to me

                      "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
                      -The Honky Tonk Man

                      "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
                      -My Father to me one day

                      "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
                      -Don Gwinn

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hey Pete, leave some ass for me!!!!

                        Soke Hunter's Bio:
                        http://www.geocities.com/jang_sul/So...nter_Page.html

                        Soke Hunter, a member of "Hock" Hochheim's Scientific Fighting Congress had the opportunity to receive personal instruction in knife combative from Hock. Soke Hunter is a certified instructor in both hand to hand combat and knife/counter knife combative through the Scientific Fighting Congress.

                        Nope, you ain't listed on Hock's site as of 12/22/04.

                        Hey, take a minute if you're reading this to go and check! The link to the page is below. I'll wait.........

                        Does Hock know that you are using his name as a reference? I hear that his laywers are pretty good. Do yourself a favor PAL, either straighten this out with Hock and his people, or drop the reference.

                        You don't learn very fast do you? Damn, you were in the Air Force? Any training in the Air Force that you care to claim? Be real careful, Soapy, eh Soke, I am former Air Force myself, 10 years, 1980 -1990.

                        Just remember, if you're going to make an ASS out of yourself, there are always people who are ready to ride you.

                        "Saddle up boys, we're going ridin' !"


                        Hock's Instructor List Link:
                        http://www.hockscqc.com/staff/index.htm
                        Last edited by chalkieusa; 12/22/2004 11:20am, .

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Amos
                          Hello Peter. I wanted to update some of the info you posted....

                          5. Goju shorei is a weapons system founded by Dave McNeil after his split with Mark Shuey. I claim absolutely no affiliation with that system. However Ed Loomis is ranked as a nidan by Mr McNeil.
                          Goju Shorei is a weapons system? I beg to differ but GojuShorei is a Okinawin karate system that existed long before McNeil or Shuey. It is empti hand with basic weapon work. Ironicly the cane "masters" had no ties to this system.

                          Originally posted by Amos
                          6. What I now claim to be is a 5th Dan in Hapkido as certified by Ronal Suggs. If you go to my photo page, you can see a picture of us doing a demo in Misawa. I also hold a 2nd Dan in TKD as certified by the Kukkiwon and a ist Dan in Judo as certifeid by the U.S. Judo Association.
                          Could you please give me your dan number so that I can verify your KKW rank? I am surprised that you were in an Oh Do Kwan school and recieved KKW rank, considering ODK was Gen. Choi's system and he was ousted from KKW long before you were studying ODK.
                          Jeremy M. Talbott

                          Originally posted by Phrost
                          "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
                          Originally posted by D.Murray
                          "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
                          Originally posted by hangooknamja88
                          My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


                          SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Also, doesn't it smell funny when someone as steeped in the traditional martial arts as Mr. Hunter obviously is acquires the infamous10th Dan and founds a system? You would think after decades of practice and meeting the luminaries of Aikido, the bad-asses from Japan who hold 6th, 7th and 8th dans, that one would be leery of the oft-abused 10th dan. Even after just seeing the frauds that use it as a shield or blinder you would want to stay away from it.

                            Migs, Peter -- enjoy your meal.
                            I dork harder than any of you can imagine.

                            - Hedgehoney

                            Comment


                              #15
                              In 1995, Soke Hunter joined Juko Kai International and cross-trained in jujutsu, kenpo-jutsu and judo. At the time he left Juko Kai, he had been ranked as a 5th Dan in Aikido, 3rd Dan in Karate, 4th Dan in Jujutsu, 5th Dan in Hapkido (Oh Do Mu Sul) and held a Menkyo Shihan-Dai in Kenpo Jutus.
                              BTW...What is Oh Do Mu Sul? I thought you were Hurk Choo Kwan? Which Kenpo-jitsu art do you hold rank in? Which Karate system are you a 3rd dan in? Could you please provide contact numbers of your instructors to verify your rank?
                              Jeremy M. Talbott

                              Originally posted by Phrost
                              "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
                              Originally posted by D.Murray
                              "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
                              Originally posted by hangooknamja88
                              My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


                              SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!

                              Comment

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