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  • dramaboy
    replied
    This is a good start.
    Best of luck.
    Some of the rules do not make sense: no side guard? Let the guard develop to suit the attacks!
    No non-WT techniques? You'll have trouble justifying this, and pple will claim that in THEIR WT there's double-legs and armbars. You'll have no way to control this unless you want to limit the participation significantly to only your clan.

    But as I said: good start

    Tomas

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  • Jekyll
    replied
    Personaly I think that boxers using a both arms to absorb a cross is a good use of centre line theory.

    It would be easier to fight under san shou/thai boxing/MMA rules, to make the event only open to wingchun practioners with sufficent experience and to allow the judges to give discretionary points for conformity to style.

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  • PoleFighter
    replied
    dear lord..

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  • DANINJA
    replied
    I think the rules are still provisional as Antonio has only just published them for discussion.

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  • Jonny
    replied
    I think that this is a great idea. The guy has identified some of the problems with WT and come up with a possible solution. If the rules were tidied up a bit, this could be very useful.

    BTW, what are the cervicals?

    Jonny

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  • JKing
    replied
    I like the guys thinking... lets apply WT in both full and light contact competitions so that more people will push themselves to be able to use WT in a realistic scenario (also hold up against full contact fighters who keep owning them).

    There have been times I myself (being in a traditional style) have wanted to do some sort of "our style's techniques only" sparring. The fact is though that it would be really hard to do that. It would be ten times harder to base a circut around that idea. The rules need heavy revision (and grammar check).

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  • manchuria
    replied
    Lets put aside for a moment why people do wing chun, the fact is they do knowingly and willingly, thus forming a very idiosyncratic martial arts community of their own which would be great to see in full contact competition, only right now their options seem to be limited at two extremes: playing chisao in their kwoon and going and training/fighting in a completely alien environment which is oriented to and dominated by other styles. Wing chun competition would provide a base where fighters could become accustomed to harder combat (and different techniques are allowed, just in very limited numbers from what I read) and then move upwards into less restricted rulesets, something which right now there is NO incentive for them to do whatsoever.

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  • Pojac
    replied
    Not at all. Boxing is fine as it is, if boxing is what you like, the same for wrestling, judo, bjj, kickboxing, whatever. Each of these varies in how free the sparring is, and what sorts of techniques are legal. But these internal competitions have rational restrictions, based on either the ranges the art/sport involves, and safety conerns.

    Boxing is a very limited sport (in what is permissible, not applicability), and kicks, takedowns, throws, submissions, elbows etc. are not allowed. But no attempt is made to say you must use "boxing punches," and not chain punching from wing chun or karate reverse punches. The sport is defined by its restrictions on range, target, and striking weapon: any technique that involves hitting above the waist with a glove is permissible, and everyone is free to win or lose on the merits of their training and techniques.

    BJJ is a lot less limited than boxing, in that you can work in clinch and ground, and can attack the entire body. It's defined by its own rule set like boxing: you can't strike, bite, eyegouge, fish hook, etc., but can apply submission holds to essentially the entire body. There's no attempt to say that while rolling you must use only bjj submissions, and can't use judo, sambo, or catch wrestling submissions. No one will call a foul if you use a standing switch (a wrestling reversal) in a bjj match. You're free to win or lose on the merits of your techniques. If you come up with something new that works and fits the format of submission grappling, not only should you be allowed to use it, you should be encouraged to use it, so the technique spreads and everyone gains.

    MMA is the least restrictive, with no limit on ranges or either striking or grappling, only safety limits such as eye gouging, nut shots. To have MMA competitions where in a sense you are more restrictred than either boxing or grappling, where you can only use specific wing tsun techniques, seems counterproductive. I think I explained why pretty reasonably in my previous post.

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  • manchuria
    replied
    Pojac, are you saying internal competition is counterproductive to a styles performance in MMA? do you think BJJ should eliminate its internal competition to focus solely on MMA then?

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  • manchuria
    replied
    The techniques of sporting WT must be EXACTLY THE SAME of classic WT!!
    I hope they allow for stylistic variation

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  • Pojac
    replied
    Hopefully. Still, I can't help but think that the logic behind all the rules is a bit flawed. Wing Tsunners are being encouraged to try a bastard sort of mma where they are supposed to use only textbook perfect, lineage approved wing tsun techniques instead of trying to get anything new out of competing. Why do this? If wing tsun turns out to actually work perfectly as is in an mma format, then students who train primarily in wing tsun won't need any artifical constraints to keep them using it. If, maybe, just maybe, some of it doesn't work so perfectly against modern mma practioners, or even against just each other in an mma format, why force them to use what isn't working....

    fuck. This is where someone chimes in that what works in mma doesn't always work in da street, and what doesn't work in mma can work in da street, and wing tsun is for da street, so they can't be corrupted by hooks and boxing defense. Right? Forget I said anything.

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  • supercrap
    replied
    I have a feeling there will be an 'irnoning out' process.

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  • Pojac
    replied
    It's surely a good idea for any art that doesn't have competition to add some. But the rules and concepts proposed are bizarre. You can take a sport like boxing and say, okay, you can only use boxing techniques, because the criteria for a legal boxing technique are simple and consistent: hit above the belt, using only your gloved fists. But to say you can only use wing tsun techniques, except for mma techniques, which can only be used on offense, but only five times, except for groundwork, which can continue? You can only use wing tsun guards? You can't use boxing "blocks," but you can use boxing punches? You're allowed to hit full contact to the body but only 30% to the head? That makes some sense for sparring, but how do you judge in a competition full contact fight what percentage they're hitting at?

    These rules are an absolute mess. I can't imagine being able to keep it all straight while someone's trying to hit me in the head. I also can't imagine being able to referee this effectively. Do I give some kind of a penalty if I see someone shift their weight in a way that isn't wing tsun?
    Last edited by Pojac; 11/25/2004 9:33pm, .

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  • Stold3
    replied

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  • supercrap
    replied
    AWESOME!

    Just what WT / VT / WC needs.

    I hope it catches on, I really do. I may even start training WC again!

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