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  • Fatality Dragon
    replied
    Since Harakure Ryu break off from one of ninja clan, that mean Bujinkan dojo probably teach similar techinque. So I will go and check it out first...

    "I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."

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  • Deadpan Scientist
    replied
    Chris McCune is having promotions on the 25th at 1:00pm. Maybe that would be a good time to go check it out.

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  • tenguatemypuppy
    replied
    Well, I think it all comes down to who is training you. I am sure there are some very good Bujinkan instructors out there who have actually earned their rank, and likewise, there are plenty who just sailed on through the ranks. I don't think there is a martial school in the world that isn't guilty of this in some cases though. After all, it's not the school that ultimately looses. The only thing the school looses is reputation when a 5th dan isn't able to defend himself against a boxer of several months. Ultimately, he lost though, not the school. Especially if it's Ninpo or some kind of koryu. Ninpo is just one example. The Ninpo arts came about in very rough times. I'm sure in the eyes of someone like Hatsumi, or Tanemura, they have nothing to prove to any other school, so why should they bother? I suspect Hatsumi no longer worries about the reputation of the Bujinkan. Tanemura (of the Genbukan) is probably a different story, but it's all, more or less, guessing. Unless one of you are psychic (PM me)?

    In the end it is a shame though because competent Ninpo practitioners aren't the people out there writing "THE NINJA AND THEIR SECRET FIGHTING ART" (which, dare I say, had an almost Ashida Kim touch to it, despite it's well respected author. No offense to his level of skill, but I think Mr. Hayes was on drugs. Then again, that's not to say Mr. Hayes couldn't toss the whole bunch of us around, but he still couldn't touch Hatsumi or Tanemura, not in 50 years). The good Ninpo practitioners will probably become even more few and far between than they are now, and leave few if any students (and whether their students are competent or not is to be seen). That's pretty much simple extrapolation. Eventually, should the Bujinkan manage to exist 20 or 30 years beyond Hatsumi, we will probably end up with some horribly mangled version of what once existed, which is not effective against shit. It's a shame really. Maybe Hatsumi has something up his sleeve that gives him confidence about the continual existence of the art though. It's hard to even guess. Then again, maybe I'm wrong on every point. I just really hope so, one way or the other, even though I don't study in those schools. It would be a downright tragedy to see any of the "old arts" get screwed up (further) by someone who won a couple NHB matches and thinks he's the god of unarmed fighting, or anything else in the "realm" (for lack of a better word) of what Ninjutsu might include.

    As far as many other martial arts, they are brutal in their own respect (as you said). Muay Thai is certainly the form of kickboxing I respect the most, with Savate a rather distant second. Ninjutsu is just different in a lot of ways, even it's brutality.

    Yes, it is hard to learn (properly, anyway). Can't disagree with you there! Certainly doesn't seem any harder to apply though. Keep in mind, this is coming from a guy who is so uncoordinated, I'm lucky if I remember which hand is going over my shoulder in a back roll! The hilarity never stops when I'm on the mat.

    I'm sure on some planet your style is quite impressive, but your weak link is: This is Earth.

    Edited by - tenguatemypuppy on January 23 2003 04:18:17

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  • Fatality Dragon
    replied
    What is Bujikan stuff like? Also is bujinkan classes expensive?

    "I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."

    Leave a comment:


  • baltasargracian
    replied
    having stated this however, I also was very glad to have had some minimal exposure to the bujinkan. I do really like it, however like tenguatemypupy said, " Just take my word on this one, it would be a bad idea if you incorporated the wrong things into your repertoire, got into an intense sparring match, and did something stupid in the absence of thought (and or the prevailing of muscle memory). "

    Bujikan stuff is very brutal , yet I personally found basic muay thai or kali to be just as absolutely brutal, only heaps easier to learn and apply.

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  • Fatality Dragon
    replied
    I would like to tell everyone who helped me with this thing thank you very much and I appericate all of the help and every single information. I will let you know what happen with the next martial art school I get into (which probably will be a month away).

    "I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."

    Leave a comment:


  • shinbushi
    replied
    Why do you want to learn Budo Taijutsu?

    I think it depends heavily on the school anyway, but the common prob with Bujinkan schools is that most of them THEORISE heavily, but never spar fullcontact(the BEST way to learn).
    I am in Torrance CA and I do alive drilling and sparring, but then again I also incorporate Straight Blast Gym training methods

    To win an unarmed conflict don't stay unarmed

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  • tenguatemypuppy
    replied
    There are techniques that cannot be sparred, and which are not tricks, you just haven't seen them. They are most certainly out there though. I'd put my money on it, because I have seen them. ;)

    I understand though. We come from our various views on the issues, entirely separate schools of martial thought. I think sparring can be fun, but I question how much you can really learn from it in the context of Ninjutsu. When I first joined the dojo I'm at, and told people we did not spar (at least not at that level, or when we did, it was more "light contact," per se), they got defensive about their own methods (sparring, drilling, etc). It bothered me a little at first, but I did some further examination and didn't take the course of a knee-jerk reaction. Soon enough, I realized that sparring is far from everything. When we finally got a chance to openly discuss it, a lot of points came out that I did not even think of (much of which makes up my current position). However, remember the context. If I studied karate, or perhaps judo, I might very well disagree entirely with what I've said. Like I said, different schools of thought.

    Anyway, I figure as long as you can apply the techniques you've learned in an actual fight (and they work, of course), then it's not an issue.



    I'm sure on some planet your style is quite impressive, but your weak link is: This is Earth.

    Edited by - tenguatemypuppy on January 22 2003 08:50:51

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  • Deadpan Scientist
    replied
    It's not San Shou.

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  • frankdooks
    replied
    I don't believe in techniques that cannot be sparred. because they are mere 'tricks' that you know. It is far better to have a solid proper system that you have ingrained into yourself through the blood, sweat and tears of HARD sparring.

    Not that Bujinkan is bad or what. But you need to assess your priority.

    that San Soo and BJJ sound cool! I hope it is full contact sansoo (san shou kickboxing) you are referring to, that is brutal, and fullcontact sparring too.

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  • Gezere
    replied
    POLITICS in the BUJINKAN!!!!

    No way I can't believe that!!!!


    If you are on E-budo look up many posts by RALPH SEVRE. He gets alot of flack for actually question the FIGHTING points in the BUJINKAN and wants to correct them. He is heavy on working out and sparring. I plan on visiting him this year but everyone I know who went to his school loved it and felt the were actually being pushed and tested.

    I wish more schools would adopt this. There are some but not many. Alas I am no longer in the Bujinkan.

    If you want to strenghting your grappling I recomend the GENBUKAN. The KJJ is pretty nice and very technical.

    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!


    "I love you Asia" - I Give BJJs Posted - December 25 2002 : 10:40:09

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  • tenguatemypuppy
    replied
    Hello all,

    Well, I have never trained in the Bujinkan, so understand this is purely my impression. It may be completely off.

    To quote a rather interesting thread I found at E-Budo (though the person appears to have withdrawn his original opinion):

    The Bujinkan was first introduced to mainstream America by (now) Shihan Stephen K. Hayes in 1975. So, it has been roughly 26 years. Since 1975 when the number of Shidoshi could becounted on your fingers (maybe using one hand twice), there have gone from about 12 -15 shidoshi, to over 1,000 shidoshi.

    http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=cbe684449512b2eb3e58f93992992f8e& amp;threadid=16246

    I've heard quite a few other people say this about the Bujinkan as well, but I guess it really is hard to tell.

    Perhaps the Genbukan or the Jinenkan would be more to your liking? They seem a little more rigorous (I know next to nothing about the Jinenkan though, except they don't have many dojos).

    Even if what I'm saying is true, the Bujinkan is probably still a good school if you could find the right instructor (then again, isn't that always the case?). Don't expect to spar much though. I got a peak into why sparring with Ninjutsu (or Budo Taijutsu, or Ninpo, or whatever the latest terminology dictates. Sorry, it's 3AM and I'm feeling stressed because I'm not a fucking Budo dictionary) would be extremely hard, if not downright dangerous. Just take my word on this one, it would be a bad idea if you incorporated the wrong things into your repertoire, got into an intense sparring match, and did something stupid in the absence of thought (and or the prevailing of muscle memory).

    "Gee, sorry about the brain hemorrhaging, man. Who would have guessed that actually works?!" I don't think that would make a very good excuse. I just don't. Furthermore, whether the technique can applied in a fight or not is not what you should really worry about in a sparring match (in this case). What you should worry about is what happens if the technique DOES work as it's supposed, and is applied on YOU.

    Well, I'm of the belief that sparring is not crucially important. Upon hearing it, I recently took the more logical position that 100% confidence in technique is more important than any "speed training," sparring, or the like. Different strokes though, I suppose.

    Anyway, if you took some time to train in the Bujinkan, or any of the "kan" schools, I'm sure you would not regret it. I'm sure as hell not the authority though.

    Again, I have not trained in any of the three. This is purely what I have seen. Take it for what you will, but you might be better off to ask students from the respective schools.

    I'm sure on some planet your style is quite impressive, but your weak link is: This is Earth.

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  • Deadpan Scientist
    replied
    You're welcome. I hope you find something!

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  • Fatality Dragon
    replied
    *Sigh* that is REALLY far from my home... But I have rode for a hour and half just to arrive to a dojo before. The website seems good So I am willing to go and check out to make sure that it have everythings I want and if it does and the price seems fair, I am willing to go all way over there and practice. Thank you for the information, Brand.

    "I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."

    Leave a comment:


  • Deadpan Scientist
    replied
    Are you in the las Vegas area? You might want to take a look at http://www.cmnorules.com/
    He teaches a San Soo/BJJ mix. They go to tournaments all the time. From what I hear, he's a good teacher too.

    Leave a comment:

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