Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Battletank question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Battletank question

    Okay, I figure since this is the basic bullshido forum and since battletanks are military, this can fly here (I hope), but I was just wondering, you always read about how an M1 Abrams tank is so elite on the battlefield because of its electronics, armour, etc....which is all cool and all that, but my question is, can't the enemy just knock the tracks off the tank with an RPG or something?? Now I mean I know they probably can't (not easily anyhow) as the tank is very very good but I mean HOW can they not??

    I don't think the tracks are that tough to withstand heavy firepower (though I don't know so I am asking), but I mean wouldn't you just have to aim a decent machine gun at the tank's tracks to disable it?? Just wondering, because this question has been bugging me for awhile.

    #2
    Isn't that why tanks are accompanied by infantry and marksmen? And while not being a military person myself (yet) there are many videos floating around of Chechens and various other Mujahideen blowing up tanks with explosives. These bombs would be about 100kg or so, so I'm guessing an RPG would not be sufficient in armor penetration.

    Comment


      #3
      I've heard of Israeli sharpshooters shooting armor-piercing rounds into tanks and killing the crews inside during their wars of the mid-20th century.

      As was mentioned, tanks are accompanied by support vehicles to protect them. Every unit type has vulnerabilities that require a blend of forces to compensate for. It's also why tanks have chain guns.

      Note: I know little about military capability.

      Comment


        #4
        While it is true that there are munitions that are capable to penetrate a tanks armor and kill the occupants they are not available to your average guerilla/insurgent fighter. The best an irregular soldier can do is probably cripple an M-1 but never destroy it even then these tanks are supported by scouts and armored Bradleys with infantry.

        Comment


          #5
          Modern western tanks use reactive armour (it actually explodes on impact, deflecting the blast of whatever munition is hitting it). In the case of the M1, theres a skirt that covers the top half of the tracks leaving a much smaller vulnerable target. From a distance its probably very very difficult to be that accurate with an RPG.
          Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989

          Comment


            #6
            Most small arm machine guns wouldn't cause much damage at all to the tracks... that, and any such futile attack would light up their own position, leaving the machine gunner to be picked on by a tank gunner.

            Comment


              #7
              Actually, shooting at tracks was a tactic used by the Soviets during WWII against heavy German tanks. IIRC, Dimitri Loza's "Commanding the Red Army's Shermans" says they used to have one tank shoot the Tiger in the treads, then when the Tiger slewed around to present its side armor, they'd shoot them there.

              Note that shooting a tread doesn't kill the thing, and now you've just got a very pissed off immobile tank. And now it knows where you are.

              Comment


                #8
                What is the actual purpose of a tank in combat? If one is immobilized does it take long to repair?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by TheKuzushiKid
                  What is the actual purpose of a tank in combat?
                  The tank is ultimately a platform for the gun. Its entire purpose is to get that gun into combat and protect it long enough to kill the enemy.
                  Originally posted by The Wastrel
                  I think the forum's traditionally light-handed approach to moderation has become untenable.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The M1 Abrams presents almost no tread because of the skirt covering it. A standered (non guided) rpg has almost no capability of hitting this tiny target at any kind of range. If you had a guided missle of some kind it might be doable...maybe. Still, you've just given away your postion and pissed off the tank crew. There are many less-expensive ways to commit suicide.
                    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

                    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Broadsword2004
                      Okay, I figure since this is the basic bullshido forum and since battletanks are military, this can fly here (I hope), but I was just wondering, you always read about how an M1 Abrams tank is so elite on the battlefield because of its electronics, armour, etc....which is all cool and all that, but my question is, can't the enemy just knock the tracks off the tank with an RPG or something?? Now I mean I know they probably can't (not easily anyhow) as the tank is very very good but I mean HOW can they not??

                      I don't think the tracks are that tough to withstand heavy firepower (though I don't know so I am asking), but I mean wouldn't you just have to aim a decent machine gun at the tank's tracks to disable it?? Just wondering, because this question has been bugging me for awhile.
                      You don't know Abrams do you. A RPG isn't that much of a threat to an M1 even on the treads and even you kill the treads you only stop the mobility its still a lethal killer. Think about it it small arms fire vs Sabot rounds + 50 cal + grenade + tow (if equiped) And Armor BN goes into battle with SEVERAL tanks so ground troops firing on one means bringing down the wratch of the others.
                      ______
                      Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

                      RIP SOLDIER

                      Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
                      -Gene, GODHAND

                      You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
                      The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
                      -Daniel Tosh

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The fire control on an Abrams is so good you can put multiple rounds on target while traveling over 55 mph over open, rugged terrain.

                        All the stuff about tanks in WWII and earlier is irrelevant. Those were nothing like modern tanks except that they were armored gun platforms on treads--but armor in those days meant a steel plate. If you wanted better armor, you simply made the steel thicker. When you reached the point where the armor was too heavy for the tank to maneuver well or possess sufficient range for combat operations, you stopped making the plate thicker. In those days, several nations used 20mm shoulder-fired rifles as anti-tank guns. It wasn't until more attention was paid to geometry and the science of redirecting or dissipating force that it became necessary to move up to explosive charges and then to shaped charges.

                        Today's tank is harder to blow than your average brick building, AND it goes 60 mph, AND it can see in the dark and shoot anything it can see.

                        I can't imagine the terror of being a conscript loading a gun in one of, say, Hussein's tanks in the Gulf War. If you were unlucky enough to be the last in your group to go, it must have seemed like the Fist of God was destroying tanks and you were always next.

                        A good friend once told me the story of being in an armored group in the Gulf War during a wild sandstorm. His group was surprised by a much larger contingent of Iraqi tanks (these would be older Soviet models--T72's?) which were able to get much too close before blundering into the Americans because of the sandstorm. His bunch didn't want to engage superior numbers so they backtracked while calling for artillery. There was some snafu and artillery was not available. They called air support, but that too was unavailable. Then someone came on and asked for coordinates, the lead tank commander gave them, and within moments huge explosions seemed to be filling their viewers. Turns out the new guy was on a naval ship miles from their position! After what seemed like an eternity of concussion and fire they confirmed that not one Iraqi tank remained and congratulated the Navy guys on their shooting.

                        Imagine that from the Iraqi point of view--there's a bitch of a storm, you'd rather not be there, the Americans are out there somewhere--oh, shit, there they are! Quick, get them targeted--they're withdrawing--and then the whole world is nothing but fire and concussion. It's all around, there's no where to run from it, and it isn't coming from anywhere. There is no possibility of fighting back.
                        *********************************************

                        Comment


                          #13
                          With all that said, remember what the guerilla leader told the observer when asked how his fighters, poorly trained and armed only with pistols and rifles, would stop the Germans who were then (WWII) fielding the finest tanks ever made and destroying American tanks at a rapid clip:

                          "We wait until the Germans get out of the tank to take a piss. Then they're dead and we have a tank."
                          *********************************************

                          Comment


                            #14
                            How valiant. And you wonder why hostile groups revert to terrorism instead of standing in the artillery shower.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Don Gwinn
                              I can't imagine the terror of being a conscript loading a gun in one of, say, Hussein's tanks in the Gulf War. If you were unlucky enough to be the last in your group to go, it must have seemed like the Fist of God was destroying tanks and you were always next.
                              Tanks didn't scare them nearly as much as the A-10, and rightfully so.

                              Originally posted by Don Gwinn
                              A good friend once told me the story of being in an armored group in the Gulf War during a wild sandstorm. His group was surprised by a much larger contingent of Iraqi tanks (these would be older Soviet models--T72's?) which were able to get much too close before blundering into the Americans because of the sandstorm. His bunch didn't want to engage superior numbers so they backtracked while calling for artillery. There was some snafu and artillery was not available. They called air support, but that too was unavailable. Then someone came on and asked for coordinates, the lead tank commander gave them, and within moments huge explosions seemed to be filling their viewers. Turns out the new guy was on a naval ship miles from their position! After what seemed like an eternity of concussion and fire they confirmed that not one Iraqi tank remained and congratulated the Navy guys on their shooting.
                              ...but this is why the Navy is awesome.
                              Last edited by Dreadnought; 10/20/2004 10:02am, .
                              Originally posted by The Wastrel
                              I think the forum's traditionally light-handed approach to moderation has become untenable.

                              Comment

                              Collapse

                              Edit this module to specify a template to display.

                              Working...
                              X